Karaoke Forums

If you are not gearing your karaoke night to be able to entertain all age groups, you're out of work.   I don't care how good you think you or your equipment is.

That means all age groups and musical tastes at once.    Keep the non singers entertained and happy.    You have to analyze the crowd.    Sing to keep the majoritry of the people there.   [highlight=crimson]Not what you want to sing.[/highlight]    It's about the crowd.   You need to sing what's going to keep the majority there and paying your wage.    

It's not 20 Frank Sinatra songs.    

It's not slow love songs.  

It's not classic country songs.

Get the hint yet?


Proving (with your song selection, with the songs you sing) you're an old geezer will not get you jobs.

The more I read BD, the more confused I am lately.....

Do we control the crowd and prevent them from getting in a frenzy y editing our book, or do we keep them energized with rock music?

Do we make sure we don't have 21-15 somethings come in to the show to cause a disruption, or play so that all enjoy?

Do we keep a fair rotation to keep our singers happy, or do we pick who is going to sing when based on the song they put up and the flow of the evening?

Maybe I am not the only one confused.....

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Let's Kick the Tires and Light the Fires!

It seems that BD's got some formula regarding how many in their 20's and 30's he'll cater to/allow?   Meanwhile, his last post in no way addressed the following reality of my last post.

    An experienced KJ with successful shows, one of which has a large number of younguns in attendance, was fired somewhere else because older people came to his show.
    The owner of the place doing the firing wasn't looking for a balanced crowd as to age or songs sung
    The owner scorned those (the age group) that was attracted by the KJ, primarilly because they didn't mesh with the younguns!  (or maybe because some sang Frank Sinatra and other country?)

The mis-match you mention could be avoided if the KJ would have done a little homework. I have learned over the years to do a little dectective work on a bar before I accept a gig. There are several areas that I look at:

1. Would this place be a good fit for my customer base and theirs?

2. Would this place be good for the image my business is trying to project?

I go in on a couple of occasions have drinks and food, chat with the customers and bar staff etc. I always do this during the days and hours that the show would be so I can get a good feel for the place. I visit as if I was a customer not as a KJ.

It's amazing what you can pick up on. I rely very heavily on my instincts when on these visits. If I pick up negative vibes or do not think it would be a good fit I never accept the gig.

This method has served me well over the years and I believe has alot to do with me having shows that are successful and that endure while other KJ's in the area hop around alot.

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

Great advice flipper.  I don't know if I have such instincts?  But your present some possibilities!

1.   I do not attract a wild crowd, no matter the age.   It's they way I do business.   My edited song book helps me to obtain and maintain an orderly crowd.    That doesn't mean they are not having fun.  It means they are not screaming drunks doing whatever they think is the right behavior.    It means they act/behave the way "I" want them to.

2.  My rotation is always fair.  I never adjust the rotation to play a certain set of songs.  They play as they come.  It's all part of my (KJing 101) up and down flow.   I don't care what anyone sings.     I never move anyone, for any reason, unless they tell me to.   This is where my KJing genius comes in to play.   When it's my turn to sing, if I think it's needed to change the flow, I will.    I never use dance/filler music.     If the crowd is getting a little too wild, I'll sing a slow song.   If the crowd is falling asleep, I'll sing a rock song.   If I have too many wild 21ers, I'll sing a slow oldie, maybe they'll leave.   The KJ absolutely has the power to control the crowd.    I can make them all leave or I can keep them all there.    Bar owners should never mess with the KJ.  :no:

3.  Bar owners are all idiots.   (KJing 101)   The sooner you learn this the more successful you will be.   WE have to fight against their pea brains, every day.   Ask yourself, what was the age of the bar owner that fired the older crowd attracting KJ?   If that's the way the bar owners wants to run his business, then what can you say or do.   That doesn't make him smart.     He may be asking for more trouble than he bargained for.

4.  I practice crowd control and I always will.    If you think that you are going to get a nice mix of singers to follow you, when half of the crowd acts like they are going to flip out at any second.   We'll see you on the way down.   Nobody normal wants to be around a ticking time bomb.

5.  I do not attract a lot of 21ers.     If they think they are going to turn my karaoke into a swearing-fest or act like drunken idiots and abuse my equipment, they're gone.   I attract normal well behaved singers, that have more talent and are more serious about karaoke.    If you can not or do not want your crowd to act normal, what can I say?  

6.  I have a bar owner that took my card last week.   After I gave it to him, he tells me he's opening a biker bar.   Guess who will not be able to do his karaoke?   I played at the bar he bought.  I know what kind of biker crowd he is going to get.   I'm talking about biker gangs.   Not Sunday bikers.    It's not in my "Good Karaoke Business Building Reputation," catagory.

It's your thing..... do what you wanna do...... I can't tell ya.... who to sock it to...

Maybe.... if you have to ask the question....you are....  :shock:


I'll ask one.


HOW LONG did it take everyone, to be what you consider, good at KJing?

I would say I really got to the top of my game 3-5 years.     To were I actually knew the power I controlled and knew exactly how I wanted my business and reputation to be.    How I wanted my KJs and shows to run.   To get to the present quality of my shows.   I had no forum to talk to.   Nobody held my hand.    It was a learning process.   I still discover new things once in a while.     As hard as this may be to believe ....I didn't become the World's Greatest KJ, over night.  :O  :shock:

Ok.....I know it's pointless, but I have to try again.....

BD- If you have a good following of say 15-20 singers (or more) and everyone is doing one song, you, as the host, sing about once every 18 songs approximately.

If you have a 3 hour gig, then you are singing 3 out of 60 songs. I cannot fathom where that is nearly enough to control anything.

And what if the middle of the rotation is where the sag happens- say singers 9-15 all so ballads. What do you do then if you don't play with the rotation or ask singers to change songs?

And finally, I have to agree with you on a point- bar owners in your area do appear to be idiots....THEY KEEP HIRING YOU!

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Let's Kick the Tires and Light the Fires!

 LOL  LOL  LOL  LOL  LOL  LOL  LOL  LOL  LOL  LOL  LOL  LOL  LOL  LOL  LOL

Tuesday night the weather man scared everyone with snow storm predictions.   So the crowd was not it's usual size.   The first hour there were 3 singers including me.    Now as I stated before once the music starts it's all non stop, continuous karaoke for the entire 4 hours.   So I sang many times that night. (up beat rock songs)    I said I had 3 singers.   There were 25-30 non singers in the beginning of the night.  So tell me what would you do?   Wait until you have 10 singers?    Play dance music and screw the singers?    Who cares about the non singers, let them get bored and leave?    

Well..... enlighten me...... Mr. KJ Experience.    What would you do?   Can you entertain a crowd of non singers with karaoke, alone?    I can sing for the entire 4 hours, if I have to.   I know enough songs to do it.

Since you asked.....

I do everything from Sinatra to Guns N Roses to the Killers to the Bee Gees. By necessity, I have even learned how to back up gaggles of women singing I Will Survive and It's Raining Men.

I personally do over 200 songs and my wife does over 100. I thought the great guru of karaoke would never have such a measly crowd of just 3 singers. Is that all that can put up with you?

In that situation, I as a host AND entertainer would ask the non singers what they wanted to hear, take some requests and then pass out mics, so while I am singing the song they wanted to hear, hopefully they will join in for a chorus or 2. That is the easiest way to convert non singers to singers.

I do not claim to be Mr. Experience. I have been a KJ for around 5 years now. HOWEVER, I have been singing karaoke for over 13 years and seen countless hosts. I belive I have seen what works and what does not.

I will try to get a straight answer one more time before abandoning logic and reason with you BD....

With a 'NORMAL' sized singing rotation of 15-20 singers, how do you control the pace of the show without altering rotation or song selection of the singers?

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Let's Kick the Tires and Light the Fires!

1.  First of all you have to see what songs have been and are being sung.  

2.  Then you need to determine the talent level of the singers, as a whole.

3.  Then you have to determine what's coming up.  

3.  Then you have to evaluate the average age of the entire crowd.  

4.  Then you have to see if they look like they are putting on their coats or sleeping on the bar.    

5.  Then you have to see where you are in the rotation.

6.  Then you look to see what will be sung 2 songs before and 2 songs after you.

7.   99% of the time, I know if I have to sing, it will be an upbeat rock song.   But that depends on how all of the above plays out.   If the crowd is falling a sleep...It's a rock song.   If they are dancing it may be a song they can dance to, fast or slow..   If  they are climbing the walls, I'll sing a slow song.     If there have been too many country songs... It's a rock song.    I may also change the decade of the songs that are mainly being sung, just to connect with a segment of that generation.    In an attempt to make as many feel comfortable as possible.

8.  It's not an exact science and the decisions are always subjuct to many factors.   I may not sing if the rotation is taking care of itself.    Remember I want the crowd flow to be up and down in a controlled manner.   I do not change the rotation.   I play them as they come and I deal with the rest.    If it's doing it by itself then it does.   If I have to help it do that, I will.     I always tell everyone to sing what they want to sing.   (I'll handle entertaining the crowd   )

9.   I never play any regular CDs, dance/filler music.   It's all karaoke from beginning to non stop end.    Even if I have to sing every song.

I started a karaoke business and that's what they pay for and get.    The singers  around here do not want to hear dance music.    I keep the non singers there and happy with my talent and song selection.

3 singers because the weatherman was calling for a snow storm.    Everyone had to storm the grocery store, to stock up on life saving bread and milk.    In case they were snowbound.  LMAO  LMAO

Yeah, everything was great when Hitler first came in to power in Germany.

A few years later, and Hitler killed himself.

Hmmmmmm....

What does that have to do with a snow storm in Cambodia?



Are you saying you're next???

Maybe I am not phrasing my question correctly, because it still was not answered....

If you have a rotation of 15-20 singers (roughly 45-75 mins), and they put up say 7 slow songs in a row or 7 rocking songs, and you are still a few singers away, how do you change the pace?

If people are putting on their coats 1/2 way thru your rotation, what do you do then?

I also love how you are bringing back the dance/filler arguement. Did I once mention using that to fill time? Not in this arguement.

And you do not need to talk to me about people preparing for natural disasters- I am in South FL and did shows with Hurricanes coming!

If my questions are not clear, maybe someone else here could clarify.....

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Let's Kick the Tires and Light the Fires!

DBK ........

I THINK ... tho I am not "sure" ....... but it sounds like what happens is ......

His rotation does not include a "set" spot for HIM.  He sings ... where he feels a "change of pace" is needed.  Now ... does this mean the rotation is never adjusted????  Well........ technically no .... because if he sings wherever he thinks its appropriate or necessary ... then someone expecting to sing after singer 9, lets say ..... will have to wait till BD sings before singing ....

However, if BD is calling the rotation "his singers" ..... and not including himself (who sings wherever he sees fit) ..... then I guess if you want to .... you could say that the rotation isn't 'altered' ... cause the person waiting to sing after singer 9 WILL sing after singer 9 IN THE ROTATION ...... but may have to wait till BD sings his "as needed" song.  


Okay ..... now if that isn't right .... then Im not at all sure how BD can claim to have a set rotation ...... AND .... sing when he feels its appropriate or needed for "crowd control".  

Am I right, BD?  

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[shadow=tomato]If you want your significant other to pay attention to EVERY word you say::
  TALK IN YOUR SLEEP   [/shadow]  

Are any of us to old for this?
I think you should get out of your profession when you are no longer able to do the job effectively. That's when you're to old. I know if I was hiring I would want the best man for the job as a first requirement not pick someone just because they are younger. I'm sure if it was a hip young night club being younger would help get you hired, but it wouldn't be the only thing looked at and in my experience there are a lot more venues that are average people than young hip bars.

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

The weather reply was to someone else.

I do not sing anytime I feel like.   That is what a good hack KJ would do.    I sing when it is my turn just like every other singer.     I give myself, nor anyone else special treatment.      I explained everything as good as I can.  Would you like a pint of blood to go with it?

It's not a cut and dry situation.   There are many variables that one has to deal with and you do it the best way you can.    

The point is that the singers can indeed chase away non singers, if they suck or they sing boring songs.     You better try to deal with the rest of the crowd's reaction to such.     Yes, I see people leaving from boredom.   Or they have heard enough lousy singing.     That is why you need to predict what is going to happen.   Now one way is, if you have some new singers entering the rotation, you can see if one of them will be singing something that will help the situation.   Maybe they sing good or maybe they are singing something up beat.    So I will put them where they can help me.    Generally, though I always place singers in the rotation the way I get them.    But if the end/beginning of the rotation is coming up, I may hold them until after I start the rotation again to help.    Like I said you have to get a little creative while still appearing to be running everything in a fair manner.   Not saying it's not fair, but that I may have taken a small liberty with the placement of a new singer, to help me achieve my goal.

There is a method to my madness.     All with the goal of helping the bar make as much money as possible.     If I can achieve that goal, then my goal of helping my reputation will be reached.
I mentioned the dance music just to say, that once I start the show it doesn't stop.  The music is continuos and all karaoke, even if I'm the only singer for 1-2 hours straight.   Sometimes you will get some singers that are slow putting in songs.  They may put one up, then decide to wait for 3 rotations for their next one.   Because they have a limited list of songs they know/sing and they don't want to run out of songs too fast.

THANK YOU BD!!

For once you answered the question, and did it reasonably!

I don't know what's scarier- that you answered or that I agree!

I believe you do have to manipulate the order from time to time while still appearing fair. I just wanted you to admit that there is no such thing as a 'perfect' rotation or 'perfect' show. We are all human.

If it is done right, no one will even know the manipulation of the order.

Thank you for flat out finally answering. (Could this be the start of a trend- offering someone a list of his shows, answering a question? Hmmmmm)

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Let's Kick the Tires and Light the Fires!

I only "manipulate" the rotation by the placement of new singers.     But I never will change the position of singers to accommodate my agenda.     I don't worry about "Dance" sets like a DJ would.   If it's a slow song, fast song, slow song,  too bad.    I will not move singers to make 3 fast song or slow song "sets."    I don't care about that.    I do not feel it is fair to move singers to do that.    I add new singers in between old ones.  So That is how I do some of my "manipulation."

I have heard of some of my hack competition that will pick and choose the songs they want to play/hear.   Maybe to accomplish something.   But I do not penalize any of my singers for singing any type of music.    I let every singers sing what they want where/whenever it comes in the rotation.

I know others that will keep moving you to the BACK of the ROTATION IF YOU SING SLOW SONGS.    I treat every singer whether they are good or bad, singing slow songs or whatever, equally.  I never favor anyone.

So do not say, I do not run/have a consistent and fair rotation.   It is as fair as I can make it, without changing posistions or penalizing anyone.   Every singers sings once in every rotation.