Karaoke Forums

This is probably the wrong time to ask; it's probably too late

One of the CAVS shows I attend on occasion has had a gig two times on the weekend at a local hotel on the beach, for quite awhile now.  In the process of updating my local karaoke show schedule, I noticed that that gig was no longer on their website.  So, I called the hotel.  The man who anwered said that he has a new guy, 3 times, a week and he's really young and hip.  I asked if the hipness of the new guy is the primary reason for the change and he said it was, among other things.

It was clear to me that he felt the new guy related to his somewhat young crowd better than the old show.  I ain't that hip (I ain't square either) and hell, I'm twice the age of the KJ they unloaded.

Am I too old to be starting this business, especially if I retire to Vegas?

You have to be able to play to the crowd at the show you are doing, what ever age/demographic they are, and I am sure that is what the venue you speak of wants.  If they wanted a 50+ WASP crowd they probably would have not hired the person they have now.

The wife and I have a couple that works for us, they are 24 and 26 y.o., and one reason is that they are able to play to a younger crowdbetter than the wif an I can in out mid 30's.  But I would NEVER send them to an anniversary party for a couple that is in their 50's.

The wife and I took New Years Eve (NYE) off.  So my wifes parent', one of our competiors, played at the place we gig at every THrs & Fri.  They did have a packed crowd, only cause it was NYE, but the bar owner had  a lot of complaints on where we were.  It is a younger crowd in that bar, mostly 20's to mid/late 30's, and my wife's 50+ parents, just don't know how to play to that crowd.

Again, you have to be able to play to the crowd at the place you are hired.

Vegas has a hundred or so shows every day of the week..

Every venue from the "House of Blues" to donut shops..

I'm not sure I would want to jump into that arena..

I'm 51 and I do a gig that has an average age of like 25-30 it so it really depends on how well you relate to younger age groups. I seem to relate quite well to all age groups but sometimes I lose my patience when I get an unruly bunch.

I personally like doing shows for the younger crowd as they tend to tip better (at least this is what I have found) and it gives me a chance to stay up on the current pop hits out there as I have no idea what to buy and they give me plenty of input.

I don't know about vegas...I will PM you with a contact that I know does karaoke shows there and you can pick her brain.

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

Excellent question.

The answer is a little complicated.

If they could prove they lost the job because of their age, they have a nice law suit.   Age discrimination.

The entertainment industry has always been based on beauty and good looks.     Youth is a plus.   Nobody wants to see a bunch of old wrinkled entertainers.     This is obvious by the limited number of leading parts the older actors get.     YOUNG, YOUNG, YOUNG.   Everybody wants a young one.

This is why plastic surgery has taken off.      

IMO an older DJ/KJ is going to have limited opportunities for employment.    Especially in Vegas.

My hair is prematurely gray.   It's not gray it actually silver.    But now it's my original color.      I don't do it because I'm vain.    I could care less about my hair color.    But I do it so I do not look like an old geezer to a new bar owner.

Only 3 things can screw up a bar business.

Bad service.

Bad food.

Bad entertainment.

The only good thing going for me is the fact that I don't want to cater to the 21ers.

But I don't want to look L7 either.

If you think you are going to be a major success and the only songs you ever intend to sing when you are trying to keep the bar full of non singers, is stuff from the 40-50s good luck.   It won't happen.   I sing almost 600 songs.  Now the majority of them are from the 60-70s.   But I also know many songs up to today.    I judge the average age group of the crowd, all night long.    If it's leaning one way, I don't sing the complete opposite.

Sending Grandma to fill in for your regular crowd wasn't the best idea.      Especially if they have a limited list of songs they sing.     It's still about the non singers.  (majority of the crowd)

The bottom line is,  YOU STILL GOTTA BE HIP.     Learn to sing the new songs.    Look younger.     Entertainers need to look bigger than life.    Nobody gets old in the real "Hollywood" world.   They just fade away.   Why???? they got to old to look at.  

The Vegas entertainment window is very small.     You may play on the outskirts, with the prairie dogs.    You will have to prove yourself.     I don't think it's going to be easy.     You may need a really good gimmick.     Or a good doctor.    Sounds funny but in real life that's the way it goes.    If you were hiring, who would you pick?   55 year old lady or a 25 year old?     Bottom line is making money and looks.     It's always a beauty contest.      Even karaoke singing contests end up being based on beauty, if given the choice between pretty and ugly, with equal talent.     It's cruel.    It's unfair.     It's the real world.   I didn't make the rules.

Young is hip....Old you slip...

I think a bar owner is more concerned on having a karaoke host that is reliable, friendly and brings in buisness. I know of only one young karaoke host in our area and he works with his dad. To own a business you have to have knowledge and money. Most young kids don't have what it takes. Personality wins over all. I'm 42 and seem to be drawing a younger and younger crowd as of late. I also think an older KJ can deal with problems better and hopefully will get more respect.

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[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

That is a myth... If the host knows what different crowds want and has the experience to provide the tempo and atmosphere for different age goups then the age oand gender of the host doesnt matter. I hosted 5 years after I retired for all kinds of parties and from pre teen to 50th wedding anniversaries..

I dont know how many hugs Ive got from young gals that told me you remind me so much of my grandpa!!!! Here are a few tricks I have learned...

A younger crowd.. More bass, volume, energy (no dead air time), more patience, less rules, PARTY..

Older crowd just the opposite .......Your filler music should be for the type of crowd Your intRo song should be for the type of crowd.. If you are doing a crowd you are unsure of here is a trick... Ill gab one of the people there that knows what they want and have them sit down at the computer and show them how to search and make up a playlist.. Ill user that for DJ and the filler music.. Then Ill save that playlist for the future...What started that was a spanish gig when I didnt know the difference beween tejano and new mexico or anything else.  Ill even let a wannabe host for awhile if hey want.. The secret is to relax and adapt to the situation.. Ive done all nighters and maybe 10 people hosted A 12 yearv old can sit down and host and if the music is right etc they dont have any trouble or grandpa can sit down and host and dont have much trouble.. A bump on a log will have everybody sittin on a log A frog will have everybody hoppin.. Ill leave it to your imagination what a rabbit can do...

I went into a new place one time and it was all very young college  and modern rock..  I noticed the KJ had Great Speckled Bird.I hadnt sang it for awhile so I turned it in.  When it started the whole place stopped.....A young man barely of age sat there and wept..  Grandpa again.... Music is like love it doesnt know age or time. It isnt predjudiced or judge the singer or musician The only ones that say different are not singers or musicians...

Any bar or host can cater to anybody that wanders in when they gain the experience and maturity and capability to do so...

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BD has some valid statements about age-discrimination in the general workplace. My wife has encountered it in trying to get hired on by the local school district as a teacher. They invariably hire the younger teacher in hopes that they will take lower pay and stay around longer(return on training investment). Same is true for entertainment, bar employment and employment in general. However, I agree that it generally takes an older more expereinced person to be able to provide the capitol neccessary for financing a karaoke show. The majority of KJ's/DJ's with ANY kind of longivity in the biz are older and more LIFE EXPERIENCED than the young kids that KJ. They perhaps get bored, lose patience or whatever, but they tend not to stick around as long as the older more expereinced KJ's. The older ones tend to have much larger established followings. In my expereinces I've also found the older ones seem to be more personable and better skilled at hosting and makeing people seem more welcome and comfortable--all part of expereince I suppose. But yes there certainley is age discrimination out there as BD points out. But in my expereinces its the older KJ's who seem to last longest and seem to be the more effective hosts in making people feel welcome and comfortable. Particularly with new visitors.

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

Mills and other big companies may hire older workers.  They can get out of paying big retirement plans.    You need 30 years to get one.   If you're 45 or over you'll die before you get 30 years.  

Remember my karaoke golden rule.

Keep the majority of the crowd happy.    Can't go wrong with good upbeat rock songs.

A quick, interim response to BD's 1st post.  The KJ that  lost the gig was in her thirties and had the gig for the better part of a year.  I have not seen her replacement, but I am guessing he's much younger.  Even if he's not, I can't compete with hip, if hip is what it takes to hold onto a gig.

So far I have found Karyoker's thoughts reassuring and I hope he's, generally speaking, right.  Also, let me stress that my question was posed in regard to public venues and not private parties.

  ........ AGE has little to do with it.  HIT music, professional interaction, quality sound ....... that is what everyone wants .... and that is an "ageless" expectation.  


Our "typical" crowd = 18-35 yrs. of age    

WE = +14-24 years older than the top age of our audience

WE are considered the best karaoke show in this region and, unless being horribly undercut, are the busiest!

Don't worry about age ..... just keep the music current, play HITS from then and now, be FAIR and consistent at all times  ..... and have good "people" skills.  

That's what has worked for us for 15yrs.

Good Luck  

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[shadow=tomato]If you want your significant other to pay attention to EVERY word you say::
  TALK IN YOUR SLEEP   [/shadow]  

Age does have something to do with everything.

WOULD YOU HIRE A 65 YEAR OLD LIFEGUARD?   If you owned the pool and were responsible?

But wait.... you can not discriminate.    Law says first one qualified must be hired.    Or you better have a good reason.    That said....you as an employer can set the qualifications to any standard you want.   If the bar is a mile high doesn't matter.   But the first person that can get over that mile high bar, better be the one you hire or you will need to have a very good reason/s for not hiring that person.   Doesn't matter about color, race, religion, age, national origin, or mental capacity.  

Entertainers can be any age.   True.      But to a bar owner or anyone else hiring someone that is going to be the centerpeice or the most visable person representing a business, IE receptionist, KJ/DJ, band leader, saleman....

First impressions count.   Should they????   They are not suppose to, but it happens all the time.

Look at all of the has-been groups.   When they are on top of the world they make millions and pack arenas.   When their time fades, (average life expectancy of a rock groups fame 1 1/2 years) then they play the dive bars they started in for a couple of hundred dollars a night.

It's a cruel world based on looks and youth.

As a business owner, right or wrong certain things have to be looked at from a money making eye.   If that means hiring someone younger and sexier for the sake of making maximum money, can you blame anyone?     Doesn't make it right.   But you have to survive todays business climate and that isn't an easy thing to do.

Do I think female KJs have an advantage that I don't?    YES

Do I think female bartenders have an advantage.    YES

Do I think a 22 year old lifeguard has an avantage over someone 50 years old?   YES

Does a good looking 50 female have an advantage over a 50 male?     YES

So the older person may have the practical experience, the money to invest and the life experience to do a better job.   YES    Do they always get the job?    NO


There are exceptions but I will say that they are  few and far between.

You want to retire in Vegas and start a karaoke business when you get there?    NO    Better get it started now and get a good bit of experience before you get there.   Not being mean.   But if your gun is loaded before you get in the fight you will have a better chance with the experience you need.   I'm sure that it must be a pretty competative atmosphere in Vegas.     KJs are probably a dime a dozen.   And out of work KJs probabaly out number the ones working.     Just like the old maid home for dancing/show girls.   They can still kick, but you don't want to look at them anymore.

UGLY has no place in this world.    

OLD has a small place.  :shock:    

Young and beautiful has the world by the nuts.  :worship:

I try to look and act young and with it.   Does it always work?   I don't know.    Do I get every job I talk to.    NO       Was it based on  my age?   I don't know.    Was it my price?    I don't know.     I wish I was born with T*ts.  LMAO  :shock:    I think it has an advantage.

When we are 18, we are rich beyond compare.  We just have to be 50 to realize what we had and let get away.  :O

At some point age does enter into the arena but I have seen folks in their mid 60's and early 70's be quite successful in this business, in Vegas....nope!

Vegas is a totally different situation. Again Eric I will forward the info on the KJ in Vegas and you can pick her brain about it. Now I just gotta find out where I put her info......coming soon

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

FInd out how this guy defines "hip" before you freak out too much. BD is right on two counts..."beauty" counts in entertainment AND there are ways to overcome it. BD may not be over-the-hill, but he ain't a spring chicken either (I am assuming); he just knows how to play the game. Sounds like everybody else who has responded does, too...give the crowd what they want, not what you want them to have.

Take heart and get in touch with the KJ from Vegas that was mentioned earlier in this thread.

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[glow=darkorchid]Musica delenit bestiam feram[/glow]

Young and hip may get you a crowd of 21-30ers.   Screaming and fighting all the time.   Have it at a club down the road.   Cops go there anytime they get a call.

If that's young and hip, they can keep it.    


In Vegas, I'm going to make an assumption that there is old money there.   There may be some young ones, but I'm guessing they are a minority.   30-up would seem to be the rule.

I would say if you have to come out to play in a wheel chair, then you maybe a little old.      I saw Tony Bennet last night on TV, he looked great for an old geezer.    But he is a "lifetime" entertainer.    He has the years under his belt.    Would he be famous if he started this year?     I doubt it, very seriously.     He's too old.  

Start thinking about all of the movie/TV stars from 10 years ago, that were the most popular.   Do you see them now?   Where are they and why don't you see them?    They are washed up, has beens.      New hotter blood took over.    Bigger box office(money) draws.     Young and HOT.     Not, old & not.

This is not necessarily the norm, BigDog ..... our crowd, though several are older than their 30's .... IS a crowd of 18-30 year olds.... and not ONCE .... have the cops been called to the club during a karaoke show........nearly 4 yrs. running consecutively.  

Regarding young  .... sure, in most facets of entertainment that is what "sells". That and "looks" (and that doesn't always mean having boobs, being pretty, built, handsome... it can also mean having that "look" that is different or "popular" at the time).  Look at AI .... based on those that are winning ...... again with the exception of this past year's winner, who by the way, was competing ONLY because they did open the age brackets .... every winner has been young..... and in one way or the other had a "unique look".  

But...... in this business..... we get calls all time BECAUSE we aren't "kids".  Parents want mature and experienced at the weddings they are paying for ... Club owners want well established, reputable KJ's.... unless their agenda includes something other than "quality entertainment".  

OUR experience ...... and again, it is just OURS ... but we have found that our maturity and age have been a huge selling point...... and as of yet, has not hurt us.  

But again..... that is OUR experience.

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[shadow=tomato]If you want your significant other to pay attention to EVERY word you say::
  TALK IN YOUR SLEEP   [/shadow]  

It is threads like this and responses that tell me who the real Kj's are and the wannabes or those in an internet fantasy land... There are responses in this forum that I wonder if the responders have actually been to a real karaoke show let alone hosted one... I have been to many sucessful shows with a myriad of hosts Each had their own personality and varied in age from college kid to old duffer..  I see a whole bunch of novice posts here and they claim to be experts How many shows have you been to for gods sake? I have been to many over a wide area and I didnt prejudge any by the age of the host... NOVICE NOVICE NOVICE..... FCS....

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Big Dog said:
Young and hip may get you a crowd of 21-30ers.   Screaming and fighting all the time.   Have it at a club down the road.   Cops go there anytime they get a call.

Sounds like the bar is allowing the behavior in the first place. Some bars are like that and they attract the bad element. Bad behavior does not have age limitations especially when alchohol is involved.

There are plenty of young folks 21-30 that just love to party....I remember being the same way when I was that age. If you look really close you will see a mirror image of yourself in some of them.

Frankly I love being around them they have fun and are less inhibited. Oh yeah there are some that are downright disrespectful and self indulgent ones but I find that is a small percentage and the bar staff usually rolls em out of there before I get to them.

One thing is for sure the 21-35 year old crowds are the ones that we will be playing to when we get into our 60's. so like it or not how well you can relate to them on their level will dictate if you will have a thriving business years from now.

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

When it gets to the point that I have to play and listen to all of the hip hip/rap, angry rock and swearing songs, to make a living, I quit.  :shock:  :yes:

I had an early 30 guy Saturday night, for the 3rd song out of the hole, wants to sing the Rodeo Song.  (Not Garth's version)    {40 below and I don't give a F........ }  To "get everybody going."    I have it, but it's not listed and it doesn't get played.   AND THAT'S THE LAST SONG, I want played at the beginning of the night with a packed house, of mixed ages.

First of all...

1.   I don't want everyone and especially new people, thinking that this song is going to be the norm all night.

2.   I don't want them thinking it's going to be a swearing contest all night.

3.   Nobody is going to screw up my reputation but me.  LMAO  


Most younger people that come to my karaoke are pretty calm.   I get some everyonce in a while that want to test things.     I do not want to play to a majority of 21ers.     5-6 young'uns OK, not 25-26 young'uns.

The fellow who is helping me get started, same age as me, had been doing a job for 8 weeks now.  Been drawing in a good crowd (of followers) in their 50's.  Gig now over.  He didn't have 20-30's in his following and his followers didn't "mesh" with the clientele that the place is trying to attract.