Karaoke Forums

I know some kjs that would do well just to get the music and vocal volume at the right mix..........tweeking the EQ, would be way beyond their normal call of duty.... .......as soon as the cutomer takes the mic.....there at the bar over-seeing the mixing of their next drink..........

In addition to rooms having different sound characteristics, you are dealing with karaoke music which tends to be VERY inconsistent with regard to EQ, not to mention the 20 to 30 different voices you have to deal with at a karaoke show.  I've been to way too many karaoke shows in the past 14 years where the KJ subscribes to "set it and forget it" EQing and have NEVER heard good sound as a result.  

I don't care if you use just high quality brands of karaoke.  EVERY brand is inconsistent with regard to EQ (even Sound Choice).  Probably the most inconsistent IMHO is DK Karaoke which certainly qualifies as "high quality".  Usually you can make DK sound good IF you are willing to make some adjustments.  I just cannot understand how Bigdog, who has the DK1-99 set, can claim to have listened to "thousands and thousands of songs" and tell us that "set it and forget it" EQing will work.

Last night I subbed for a KJ friend of mine.  I am his "official" sub host because he knows that I WILL mix sound.  There is NO WAY that he would ever let Bigdog run one of his shows due to his idea of so-called "sound mixing" that he has described on this forum.  Well anyway, at the show last night someone put in "Mack The Knife" on DK and I rolled back the HIGH in a hurry.  It's a great version - just a little too much treble.  Of course at a Bigdog show if a track has too much treble or bass or midrange the audience will just have to put up with it for 5 minutes I guess.  What I can't understand is if Bigdog has been a KJ for 14 years and has figured out an "average" EQ setting why is it such a big deal to deviate from that "average" setting?  He should know EXACTLY where that "average" setting is by just looking at the mixing board (remember we're talking about someone with supposedly 14 years of professional KJ experience).

What amazes me the most about Bigdog is that he is willing to challenge conventional KJ wisdom with "better" ideas but for some strange reason will not allow his "theories" be be "tested" by disclosing his gig locations so we can "learn" firsthand.  It all amounts to "I'm a great KJ because I say I am" or "my sound is good because I say it is".

i've heard bd's system and i thought mark's system sounded fine (or maybe i'm just used to 'hack' systems). but i am surprised that he doesn't eq his system since two of his rooms couldn't be more different. one is a converted barn with a high ceiling with a lot of hard surfaces set up on the dance floor and somewhat far from the people, where the other is a small room with carpeted floors and low ceiling and set up pretty close to the people. if anyone wants to travel to this part of the country, you can check it out mark's system for yourself. bye pghpat

Don't let your limited knowledge keep you from believing it can not be done.

Do you believe that E=MC2?     Many brilliant minds need to be convinced about that.

The DK 2-12 version you speak of is the one I play.     That version has a bigger problem than EQ.   The volume gets louder during the song and has to be adjusted down during the entire song.    Do you adjust the volume during that song?    Or too worried about the high end EQ?

I have Pioneer lasers, Pioneer CDGs, DK, MM, SC, Legends, Star discs, Back stage.   You name it I have some.    Listened to thousands of songs and made the EQ adjustment during each one.    In the end, there is a common (average) setting which is never moved by me.      It's the average EQ setting I came up with after setting the Eqs during those thousands of songs.    No need to change them song after song.  

We had a jerk DJ that worked for us that thought he had to EQ all night long.   All he did was screw up the entire system.   Nothing sounded good when he was done.   I had to re-adjust the settings before the next gig so it would sound good again.

Maybe it's the combinatition of equipment I use.     You may never be able to do it the way I have.     It may sound impossible or crazy to you.    You would just have to see and hear it to believe it.     It is possible.     I have done it.   I have been doing it and I will continue to do it.      14 years, 3 different systems and many many different barroom configurations.     Thousands of songs and singers.   Ask any of my singers who has the best sounding system around.    You won't hear too many different answers.   Even other KJs will tell you.    Other competition KJs admit my system sounds the best, over their own system.  LMAO  :O  :shock:    They chose to not buy the equipment and make the investment I have.     So they are happy not sounding as good.

I'm not claiming to be a genius, but don't try to tell me how my systems sound.    I'm telling you that I have not changed the EQ setting between bars in the last 14 years.    It sounds the same in every one.     Maybe I'm lucky.     Or...... maybe I am a genius.  :yes:  :D

FINALLY a statement from dog I think we can all agree with  LMAO

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Yeah and he probably believes all you have to do is put the key in a car and go.  No need to worry about air pressure or fluid levels.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

I am well aware of the crescendo problem with the DK version of "Mack The Knife" (DK02-12).  OF COURSE you have to cut back the volume on this track periodically throughout the song just like you have to do with "My Way" (DK67-01) or "With Or Without You" (DK61-01).

I've also listened to thousands and thousands of songs and clearly understand the fallacy of "set it and forget it" EQing.  I'm not dealing with "theory" here when I am talking about various karaoke songs with EQ issues - I'm dealing with REALITY.  If you happen to have "Come Home Soon" by Shedaisy on THM play this track and tell me how well your "average" EQ setting works.  You have to roll back the LOW big time to get this one to sound good.  

Once again I will ask you this question:  If you have listened to "thousands and thousands" of songs and have arrived at some "average" EQ setting and have been a KJ for 14 YEARS why is it such a big deal to deviate from this setting, as you should surely know where the "average" setting is, right???

Bigdog, I honestly don't know how YOUR system sounds but in the 14 years I've been involved in karaoke I have yet to hear consistently good sound from a show utilizing "set it and forget it" EQing.  The KJs who actually do what I call a mix (Lonman for example) are the ones who achieve good sound.  That's just based on my personal experience.  

I'm just wondering - where might I go to find a Bigdog karaoke show so I could learn firsthand how good sound can be obtained by "set it and forget it" EQing?  This question has been asked by many on this forum.  Without being able to prove anything basically it's a matter of "my sound is good because I say it is".

Mike, you've been around the block.   Tell us all honestly, of all of the KJs you have ever heard.  

How many are really good sounding?

How many sound OK?

How many sound like S**T?

My experience is the majority suck, bigtime.

There are very few that come close to my sound.    The majority do not use subs.    Distortion seems to be the main sound.    Crap is the other one.

Now here is the problem.   I have many KJ competitors that know my system sounds better than theirs.   And have told me this to my face.      They say theirs doesn't sound as good as mine, but they are #2.     These people must need hearing aids, because what I have heard from their systems sounds like crap.   There is no way they are second to me.    If they were, their second comes in so far below me, it doesn't matter.     These are old time KJs.   Been sounding crappy for years.   But to them it sounds good enough.    Worse than mine, but good enough.    That's the key word here.    "Good enough."   To them.    They suck.

I don't sound good enough.   I blow them away.   Not by a little bit.   By a whole lot.     They are not in my league and I resent their implication, that they are.    

Now you may be only talking about one heavy bass or heavy high end song in several months.   Yeah, I get one every once in a while.     It's not my system making them sound like that.   It's the way it was recorded.     I have nothing to do with the disc recording quality.     There may be a time when I turn a bass knob back.     BUT I NEVER EQ A ROOM.     Never have and I never will.   It is not necessary for me to do.   My system sounds the same, whether it's in a giant room or a tiny cubby hole.    Not crappy, not distorted.   It's something that once your hear it, if you are any good and and take pride in the way you sound, you will not want to sing anywhere else.     I hear all about every crappy sounding KJ.    I have had non singers tell me after hearing 2 songs that they knew there was a big difference in my system.     When the non singers can hear it, that's saying something.    

I know how my system sounds from day to day, room to room.    EQing is the last thing on my mind, when I'm working.     It's set and that's it.    Sounds great.   Always.

Listen to a bunch of songs and mark down the EQ setting for each song.     See if they all start looking pretty close to each other.  (I'm talking about the channel twisties.)   My 32 band system EQ is already set to my optimum settings.  It's how I want the system to sound always.     The machines change the EQ.     So when I put in new machines, the twisties needed a little change to make the system sound as good as it did before.   But I didn't change the 32 band system EQ.

I would only change the system EQ, if I were changing the speakers.   It might be necessary then, if the twisties couldn't compensate.

I change 2 things for every song.  

1.   Volume.     Vocals (sliders & gain if needed to keep from red lining) & music (sliders).     The music gains are already set to keep the machines from red lining.

2.   Reverb.     (Amount) (sliders)


I just started a new bar.    I come in, set up, turn it on and sing.    No room EQing.    No need, because I know how it's going to sound.      Clear and you will hear the bass, the mids and the highs.

Never mind......he'll never get it!

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

My car just does what I want it to do.   It knows me.

One thing I'll give BD, there are a lot of shows (not necessarily new) where the KJ was a singer and knows nothing (much) about managing a sound system.  Meanwhile, in one of the first threads I ever posted I said that the singers I know when we evaluate different shows rarely, if ever, comment about sound systems.  There are other factors higher on our lists when we evaluate shows.

And while BD may be correct about his competitors' sound, if they are as experienced as he says, the only conclusion I come to from BD's comment is that different people have different opinions about what sounds good.  Assuming his competitors have quality sound equipment, how does BD explain the disparity between his sound and theirs, especially when his competitors are EQing their systems?

It may be too early for me, or maybe my coffee hasn't kicked in yet, but did BD say his EQ was twisties? Every professional EQ I have seen is sliders. They give you a better fine tuning aspect and are easier to adjust.

I think his argument here is smelling more and more like some swiss cheese with the holes everyone is poking in it.....

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Let's Kick the Tires and Light the Fires!

Yes he said twisties, however that was a term that was kind of coined for the newbies when describing the channel strip eq's on the mixers.  BD has stated he has a 32 band eq, most all sliders pushed up OVER the 0 mark & he never changes that eq for any reason - but has also stated he never changes the channel strip eq either for different singers or different songs - even though everyone BUT him pretty much knows that this is not the proper way to run a system.  
When people come in during the night the acoustics of the room change, people absorb bass, so the bass needs to go up, sometimes the highs need to go up a tad as well.  Less people, don't need as much.  If I 'set it & forget it', my sound would then sound like crap, i'll stick with adjusting for each & every singer & song - mainly because it needs to be done!

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Most of my "competition" use 1-2 shoe box speakers without subs.    Cheap $50  microphones, no reverb, distortion always.     Their entire system will fit neatly, with extra room in one of my subs.     So are they my competition.   In name only.   Not based on equipment.     Professionalism, sound quality, experience, investment or music selection.

They suck.    How can they possibly, in their widest stretch of imagination think that they are anywhere close to being my competition?   With the limited inferior crap they have?

$50 microphones will never sound like $600 ones.   2 half pint speakers will never sound like 4.

How can they be so far out of touch with reality?     NOBODY around here has a system that sounds as good as mine.   If they think they do, they need hearing aids.

Even when they know and admit that my stuff sounds better than theirs, they never change anything.   So you tell me why they know, but never feel the need to upgrade to the competition?   I'm very curious about that answer.   They all can see and hear the difference, but they don't feel the need....

No money, too cheap, too stupid, don't care.  :O    

Yes I have lots of competition in name only.......  :O  :whistle:

I can be 100 times richer with one dollar compared to a guy with 1 cent.

In other words, I can send MUCH better with a crap system if my competion is even worse.

Exactly, they run crap, you have decent equipment improperly set-up, but yes it will still sound better than something that is crap to begin with.  Put it up against someone who has the same quality gear AND KNOWS what they are doing, you'd be looking for that life jacket & singing a different tune - I GUARANTEE it!!!!    :wave:  :whistle:  Kind of the same with you, you've been told numerous times your system is improperly set-up, yet you do nothing to improve it because you don't think you have to.  Same mentality!

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I fear no system.     Bring it on.

Did you just say "Bring it on!"?  I'm bringing this system with me, BD.

Just make sure you have enough tissue paper to wipe tears from your eyes as you listen to a tri-amped TRX system.

Where shall I park my trailer?

Park it in my driveway, I prommise I won't bother it!

I'll move all the junkers and you can park it beside the hog pen.



I hope I never have to go back to using a system like that again....