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One thing especially helpful about having a teacher directly at your side while he or she is critiquing/training you is that after several attempts at what they are trying to show you, you yourself hear the improvement thanks to their guidance.  Trying to critique someone via the written word can lead to some misunderstandings I'm sure but the other person needs to be aware and open to the fact that maybe what they think sounds good to their ear is not so hot or for example, something they do that is notable could be made better.  There is no other way to learn really!  I remember some young lady several months ago that posted a song on SS asking for a critique because she was entering a contest.  I actually sat at the piano (in tune) and worked it out along with her submission, took notes,  and she was noticeably off key in several prominent areas.  I mentioned this to her in a "nice" way and her response was "Oh, don't worry! When they mix this in the studio it will sound totally kewl"!  There ya go.  I'm sure she didn't win said contest either!

I was just reading a thread from December of 2005 and the subject of criotique was old back then. It's something that will come up time after time and probably still needs to be addressed each time.

I once asked Michael Jay Klein for a critique. I didn't know how involved that could be or how time cunsuming for him. He gave it all of the attention he thought it deserved and that was way more effort than I was hoping for. I was able to set my ego aside and listen to how to improve from him and a few other people. If I ever do that again it will not be using the term critique. I will ask for some positives and negatives instead. What am I doing that works and where can I improve.

I want to again thank Charmin, Odie, and Michael for thier time and effort when I asked for it. I had no idea it could turn out to be such a burden, and it really could have been. They all gave me very helpful advice on the technique, style, and recording that went into that submission. When recording technique came up I didn't have the heart to say that it was my first sub ever. From the comments I got on it I actually did pretty well considering my lack of experience.

A term besides critique should be considered. If I ever ask for such help again, and I probably will, I will be more specific about what I am looking to improve so the person helping me won't have to put so much time and effort into it.

I can take Critique, Michael Jay Klein was nice enough to tell me what he really thought of my singing ability and I just laughed because I already knew he was right.  LMAO

Im a good sport...So it did not bother me that he said I sucked!!  :(

But I still have fun with singing and will continue on.  :D

Mmmmmmmmmmmm, the critique was provoked by external circumstances notably brought upon yourself Jesse by coming to my submission FIRST and yanking my cord without ANY provocation from me (you somehow neglected to mention this in your version above, thank you).  Nothing cuts quicker to the truth of the matter than getting someone irritated.  My opinion still stands.

Yeah, but guys.   "Eye for an eye" type stuff isn't objectively "Critiquing"  LOL. Ongoing wars aint critiquing either, Critiquing focuses JUST on the work submitted, and the goal is to help the other person. I suppose kicking someone in the ____ to help them to some is a type of critique, but in music it's not common  LOL, Martial arts it might be considered learning thru hardknocks  .  Critique leaves differences and personality gripes aside.  It focuses on JUST the submitted musical piece.. Yeah,  I know this is tough too. Telling a person they suck or implying so is no constructive criticism.  But you guys already know this anyway...

Btw Bigdog,  I apologise for anything in this thread, or my other threads that might sound critical of what works for you.  My own feelings are just somewhat different regarding various aspects.  But that's what I like, differences of opinion, because either way, what I learn either solidifies something else I might've believed, but now must confirm, or didn't believe, but have now given more thought to.  I can't discount what you say, or do not believe, and it's not my intent in these posts..  I don't know firsthand what does and does not work for you.  My statements are just from my own experience.  Nothing more. *I* know for me...Sound person, or good ears out front are as important as a bandmember now-adays.  In terms of teaching, the internet is a pretty new concept in terms of exchanging concepts without two people being present.  Cam-stuff seems like a reasonable alternative, and I know music instructors that teach interactive lessons on guitar, bass, etc... Online via Cam.  I think on the pro-level nothing matches real and personal interaction, but Cam I think also is a pretty viable concept too, assuming the refresh rate is fast as in streaming cam

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Critique proves to be a very involved subject. A lot has to be discussed just to understand where everyone is coming from on this.