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Again, how would a person that teaches singing necessarily going to qualify them to judge singers?

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I earn part of my living through my voice, both singing and speaking. I have judged singing competitions
I still dont believe I am qualified to critique

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Exactly, everyone is going to hear different things & like certain things & ways people do certain things with their vocals.  Being a 'pro' singer or teacher isn't going to change that.  Bob Dylan is a pro singer, but is horrible in my opinion AS singer, as a songwriter I give much credit & respect.  
I tend to agree with Simon often on AI as I hear little things - comes from picking apart songs to learn for cover shows.  I hate my own singing but others have said that I am pretty good - I don't see it.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

we are always our worst critic sir. I too tend to agree with Simon.
Also if I am judging a live competition I tend to look at the big picture...for instance if you dont dress for sucess in my opinion you dont rate yourself as a winner! Give me two people of similar talent levels and one has dressed like a winner they will take it out every time in my eyes. Also if you have stage presence, a certain attitude that says "look at me!" then I mark accordingly

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

I agree with that to a point, even though it shouldn't be a factor, if given 2 contestants are equal in every other aspect, the dress may be the deciding factor.  I try to encourage people to dress up a little more during a competition - at LEAST the finals.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Here's another aspect regarding this Bigdog.  When I've helped certain musicians and singers on the internet, I've wanted them to record their work on a Cam Movie so I could see posture, facial expression, in the case of instrumentalists finger technique, hand position, seated or standing posture, even the guitar neck..  Those of us that have taught don't usually "teach on a forum where ALL we have to go by is the heard product". I'd recommend that ANYONE who wants to get the most out've a critique by having a qualified vocal coach or trained intructor listen to them, ALSO have a webcam so the person can also see their posture, presence, and some problems that might have to do with physical aspects. Like sports, golf, etc...It's a person and their body producing the singing, THAT area often needs tweaking too.. When there's a problem, or even if there DOESN'T appear to be an area where a person is straining,  it doesn't mean posture can't be improved, or they aren't doing something that might not lead to future probs.

I suppose my point is,  many of us that are musicians and have interacted in person with others (as Instructors as well)...  Feel that nothing matches the presence of a LIVE vocal instrumental session where you can hear a person's singing IN PRESENT and IN REAL without electronics, hardware, and techniques some often use to mask insecurities.  It's good to see the WHOLE person when teaching music as it is with sports.  It's not usually how far they can hit the ball...But if they are slicing or pushing, WHY ?

When asking for a professional type critique online, you are also asking for something in addition to a knowledgeable person with just a good ear, and enough familiarity of his area of skill to make certain assumptions.  You are also asking that this same person has a very good understanding of certain features and changes that take place when singing thru computer electronics and recording devices, etc.

I'd always recommend a person who is serious about their art consult with someone IN REAL, and schedule a few lesson's as well.  While the critique can be helpful,  it's MORE beneficial to have a more advanced artist work with you FOLLOWING the critique to iron out those areas where the person feels there can be some improvement.  It's THIS stage that's most frustrating, trying to relearn and break certain habits.  This is where you want a pro to help.

Most that are advanced know of others they respect in their craft.  Nothing wrong with asking a person who a singer feels is very good to listen and offer feedback in real. We all can get feedback and critiques in real.. There are always those around us (well in the cases of MOST of us at least, not you of course BD, you ARE the best  ) that at some point in time, we feel are better more advanced, or have a style that we'd wish to adapt as an embellishment,  best way to improve is surround ourself with those that we feel are good if not better than us. It steps up the pace. I used to like hanging around university music halls.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Well it was just a question that I posed after someone else posted it somewhere else.    So it had nothing to do with me or the Singers Forum or anything else.   I just wanted to know if there was anyone on that level that would do it.

poke ya nose out and the pistols are coc ked

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Steve makes a very valid point about the performer also being seen physically while in the act of producing sound.  As a voice student myself, my teacher is always right where she can see me as there are visual indications one is singing properly (posture, shaping of vowels with lips, position of neck, etc.)  There is much too it.

You know, a singer has a very tough job!  They must not only please with their voice but stage presence as well.  A couple weeks ago I viewed the TV special commemorating Tony Bennett's 80th birthday.  Now, here is a man up in years (and still sounding great by the way) who, while dueting with people like Diana Krall and Michael Buble (great voices, vacuums on stage) was probably the cynosure of every eye with this almost undefinable, charismatic way about him.  And this ability is in no small way, aside from his vocal talents, ascribable to his longevity in show business

I guess thats why "Elvis Presley sat down on a stool while in the Recording studio"....So he could have perfect posture!!! And Get those shaping of vowels with lips, position of neck, and all that stuff just perfect!!!    LMAO  LMAO


oh yeah!! and Jerry Lee lewis....That guy who sings and plays piano! Im sure that posture really makes a difference!!!  :rotflmao:

Oh and the lead singer for AC/DC when he's doing that funky strut across the stage!!
 LMAO  LMAO  LMAO

One tip that can help anyone serious about singing was given by Bocelli(?), on American Idol last season - practice the proper use of and strenghten the diaphragm by lying on the floor while singing.

Good point Eric! In fact one of our really good singers on the showcase was laid out with a back problem for quite some time and was telling me he did a lot of his singing flat on the floor and I must say, his voice sounded extremely good! It is a good way to build up all that makes up that part of the singing voice.  Great idea!

Yes Jesse,

  Posture is especially important when seated. The term "posture" doesn't preclude "seated posture" while at a piano. Or, seated on a stool. Try sitting anyplace for a duration with poor posture, it does take it's toll in time.  Back position, projection of the voice, (diaphragmatic singing as opposed to just singing from the throat/head and risking nodules and damage -or proper technique when singing OR playing an instrument seated) are habits ALL musicians should get into.

  Seriously,  Music injury (believe it or not) just like sports injury is VERY common. It's even a medical specialty area. Especially among we older musicians who are severely arthritic because we did slouch over the keyboard much of the time (as opposed to keeping our backs straight when seated) thought we were doing things correctly and got into poor habits with hand positioning while playing on the neck of a stringed instrument, improper pivot point when applying finger vibrato, blowing into a brass instrument with poor embuchure, or EVEN just wrist-positioning of the picking/fingers positioned on the guitar, ESPECIALLY slap and pop bass technique, OR...Holding a violin incorrectly, etc.. It's the LITTLE THINGS that over time add up.. and as a result arthritis due to impact and strain to parts of the body improperly used some of us ARE hurting.. FEW can do what the 20 year olds or even 30 year olds can get away with doing a few times, but in not curving our fingers properly when playing piano the fingers pay a price, OR we didn't have our arms positioned properly, etc while seated, etc..  These are physical activities.  Don't kid yourself, ALOT of front singers are also very athletic, they are in good shape, of course some are killing themselves as well. ALOT of musicians are putting their body thru quite a workout. Rod Stewart, MOST opera singers, and ESPECIALLY hard rock singers... THESE particular people put their body thru ALOT ! You don't think despite their measily appearances,  Mick Jagger, Steve Tyler are in VERY good athletic shape, and NOW take good care of themselves ?  Take AC/DC for instance.  These kids also played soccer. They aren't "Joe average".. and in time, they pay a price for what they did, or did not do. Especially athletic folks,  injuries abound !

Not all that sing are singing quiet Elvis love ballads into a microphone. You don't start singing and practice singing in everyday settings with a microphone. Just sit at a computer desk with poor posture for hours at a time,  see what happens.  Soreness, even headaches in time.. Eventually it takes a toll... Seated posture is VERY important.  Musicians are participating in a physical activity. Back posture whether standing seated, or lying on a floor DOES make a difference.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Hey I think you got something there Steven!! That might be exactly whats wrong with me....I have been sitting here at this computer for the last six years slumped over without practicing proper posture.  Now I know why my back hurts and Im having all these head aches!!!  LMAO

Thanks ...Now if I can make myself practice proper posture, will it take another six years to reverse these horrid health issues Im experiencing??  or can it be reversed within six months??

Try sitting in an electric chair for a few minutes each day....might do the trick.

Jesse,  I added to my above paragraph as a few thoughts came up  LOL

I don't know much about the therapy aspects, or sports medicine type areas.  That's a whole area that requires extensive kinesiology, and Anatomy and Physiology knowledge. Something I don't have. Back posture however is quite important as a habit to get into..  When I look at Angus Young,  I keep wondering,  "when is this guy going to drop".. His energy level and hyperactivity is really put to grueling lengths.  But this guy isn't your typical person to begin with.  He is in fact small and in very good athletic conditioning.  Like ballet dancers.  Large and bulky isn't what it takes to do what these folks do.  If Aaron Neville started jumping around like that, he'd be dead or paralyzed in no time  LOL  Even Keith RIchards who so many joke about in terms of "he's been dead for years, but nobody has told him yet".. Keith is in amazing condition ESPECIALLY considering what he put his body thru. SO many of the musicians who are around today (that were also around in the 60's) really have amazing genes, AND started taking care of themselves in time.  Many do die very young.  Heart attacks, stroke, (embolisms), drugs and alcohol etc.. When we look at AC/DC, the stones, alot of front singers.... These folks ARE athletes in a sense.  To be on tour at 60+ is NOT an easy thing. I don't know how Angus, Tyler, Jagger can do it, BB king, etc..   Steve Vai recently said when he hit 30's, he started losing ALOT of dexterity,  he can't do today what he once did... Some are lucky genetically, but they eat right, take care of themselves too...sure they indulged for a time... But the body can forgive under the right set of circumstances... God only knows what they are however.

About Keith Richards,  falling out've a palm tree and jet-skiing at 60 ?  This guy isn't a couch potato  LOL    He's obviously in decent shape. Or was

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Actually that feels Great michael, shock treatments help ease pain when other treatments seem to fail.  LMAO

It is amazing how these people can sing and do the things they do, Im trying to get back in shape but it's not going to be easy.  :(

<moved to music/musician thread>

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Many feel this same way.  "Critique" is a formal term that belongs in a scholastic type setting, regarding music, a conservatory or college music curriculum. It doesn't belong in a "fun" forum.  :Critique: racticum: :rank: all have stigma, for good reason too !

Next,  you add a term such as "critique" to a setting where most don't have a clue what the process actually means... You have set your table for a lot of choking folks.
That term should be changed to "Constructive comments only"..

Unfortuneately some use "C" as "Camouflaged trashing", "Rip ______ another butt", etc, and the most widely known definition by acclain of "Critique" in SS is  "Throw me flowers"..  These are all erroneous.

It's a process that needs to be learned, and learned how to be delt with too.. I don't even know the "correct" 2006 text ways of offering a Critique.  Teachers study this.

For the students,  Handling criticism as about one of the toughest parts of the education process.  Some of us still keep failing  LOL

I know of several in here that CAN handle Critique.  Two I'll mention are Jian and Lonman. They ask for Critique, and they genuinely want it, and appreciate it. I learn from watching people such as this..  It's something to learn from !  Shelving ego is important for growth most of the time. Unfortuneately some are just too proud to improve (make changes).

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".