Karaoke Forums

Ha, ha, I had to double check all the dates on the Beatle trivia.  The Beatles were definitely the first English band to have a hit song in the US.  Englishman Acker Bilk did have a Billboard #1 hit in the US with the instrumental song "Stranger On The Shore" in 1962.  The Beatles had their first big US hit 'I Saw Her Standing There' on the US album Meet The Beatles in Jan. '64.  The song is actually older really, originally on the UK album Please, Please Me from early '63.

Wow, the debate over what was the first US radio station to play a Beatles recording is a lot more complicated than I thought. I don't know if anybody can prove beyond a doubt the answer to this question. But it looks like it was a D.C. station in Dec. 63.  But Murray The K. might have played one Beatle song even earlier in September, 63.  This link is for die-hard Beatle fans only.  All others will think "who gives a rip?!"  

http://user.pa.net/~ejjeff/beatles1st.html

Would ANY baby boomer be able to compare rate and depth of change in music during any 6 year period outside of the 60's decade to any 6 year interval within that decade ?  Being a bit too young to be a baby boomer, I don't recall whether there were significant changes between 58-64 that match up in terms of "rate and depth", of course this is relative to the listeners age group and geographic location even within the US too.. What this means is in my particular case, being older than most who grew up more during the "punk", and "Grunge" periods..  I can only speak of music periods relative to those I lived thru... I can't think of any evolution during a 6 year span that was as radical as any 60's six year period (beit 1960-1966 or as you mentioned 1964-1970).  Although around 72 Funk became known, was the classic rock to disco transition (around 1969-1975 which would've encompassed Rock/ballad-Soul/Funk--Disco) more or less radical ?  Food for thought.

This might be so subjective, that the answer hinges on listening preferences of the individual, and nothing more.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

How can we really know whether or not a smaller suburban station after hearing something on BBC world service or VOA beat a larger city station to the punch on this area tho ?

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Good points there Steven!  I think there've been other radical periods of change in music development over the years like the one's you mentioned.  I'm just not hearing them occur as much lately.  People seem to be sticking to formulas a lot more that work especially when it comes to making money in the music business. This isn't on this topic, but I'm also seeing bands on prominent national TV shows that would still be in the "practicing in the garage" stage a few decades ago -- they just wouldn't be good enough yet.  Maybe todays younger audience can detect the subtilties and changes more.  But still I think any person that has seriously listened to different styles of music over the years can come to some valid conclusions without actually having lived through all the periods.  Is some scholarly musicologist really incapable of being objective towards all music styles if he didn't live through or personally like them?  Hmmm.....

Actually it *IS* on topic, and pretty much concurs with what I'm stating Don.  Here's why,  What does "Good enough" mean ?   If JT and the Beatles, and Simon & Garfunkle emerged for the first times "TODAY" 2006.  Would ballad of that type TODAY be considered "Good Enough" ?  "Good Enough" (besides the fact that it's not always saleable) is relative to ones conditioned preferences which means a listeners geography and even time !  When we are talking about music style *WE* like, we can not preclude terms such as "Used to" and other aspects of *emotion*  This get's pretty much into the philosophy of aesthetics and art (at least I believe it does, I might be wrong).  Terms that seem specific such as "Rate and Depth of change in an art" are contingent on recognition of such "Rate and Depth".  While we are atune to the blues/Rock R&B/Ballad/ or l-lV-V styles with a plagal <SP> cadence, many kids born 15 years after us don't hear anything except boredom in the music we took a liking to, or in a sense became *conditioned* to appreciate. If there's no appreciation, there's no "rate and depth" that can be recognized.  Aesthetic appreciation is just that subjective.  It's not fact.  It's what can be heard, appreciated and only then ascribed terms such as "rate and depth"

IOW,  those of us partial to certain time periods make inadvertent gross assumptions.  Biggest assumption being is that what *WE* are partial to is more *profound* than that which we aren't.  To those born 10 years after us Don,  depending on Geography, a period of music that we don't even recognise, is likely the most profound in it's evolution.  This is why I prefaced my statement with "Baby Boomers",  "Slightly younger than Baby Boomers", etc.   We have music style in common..   However,  not with those a generation younger (but there are always exceptions)

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

In a sense,  the Musicologist is also a philosopher.  Here's why.

Ask the question-

"In the last 6 Centuries of music,  what period had the most profound change in terms of "rate and depth of style?"

Although I studied Classical,  do I really understand it and appreciate it ?  Quite honestly I have to answer "Yes I appreciate its complexity, but I don't really understand it".

MOST of us without a lot of music appreciation training and schooling in this area couldn't answer such a question.  Those that could, are answering from "book knowledge". NONE of us actually have such a spectrum of style and time period music appreciation to answer such a subjective and vast question.  Assuming there is an answer to such a subjective hence generally ambiguous question.

Finally,  Here's how we can tie this into the "Karaoke" area of music.

Karaoke is based on more of a Western Style of the "Ballad" genre of music.  Music with lyrics that tells a story is usually "ballad".  Most that enjoy Karaoke have something in common.  They like "Ballad" style.  Does this include "Classical" ?  Is Opera Ballad ?   I don't remember.  For an answer to this, maybe Jazzybags, or MJK, or someone else can help us.  If I knew the answer to this,  I've since forgotten it  :drunk:

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Well, what I was getting at when stating that some bands didn't seem good enough to play on national TV was that the players didn't seem proficient enough on their instruments to warrant so much exposure. This is assuming that playing ability is some kind of a prerequisite.  In this case I wasn't really commenting on the songs or style.

Can music quality really be judged at all in ways we can all agree on? Is there ANY fundamental criteria needed to make a piece of music good or bad?

Exactly, "Technical ability" in ones craft certainly was important during our days of a more structured ballad.  Listen to what makes the complexity of a Song like Scarborough Fair so "pretty".  Likewise alot of ballad.  But "Feeling" "expression" and sometimes "Rebel rock" matters to others.  Even during the later 60's period we speak of a less structured technical type of musicianship was often heard during interludes within the body of LONG compositions by "The Doors", "Iron Butterfly", "Creme, LZ, The Who, Stones, and all the famous artists that have said songs carved into the archives of classic rock.  To me, a more technical "cover" musician a certain amount of proficiency on instruments is needed to bridge certain gaps into Jazz, and more abstract areas of music. Or tougher harmony structures, etc.   To those that love KORN, and other loud "Hard Rock" (as they call it today) it's also about some amount of technical ability...but it's more about expressing oneself, banging ones head.....yadda yadda... Moshing,  hurting the ears of the slighly older generations...etc .. it's accepted but just different strokes I suppose.  Still there's a strong demand for "Adult Popular" and "Easy Listening" that demands the musician has talent and can compose sensual, pretty ballads...ie..  Seal and some others.  There's a much larger pool of music out there today.. a melting pot of numerous styles.. Many we don't understand.  Many we do, but they are too profound, and emotionally evocative ie... certain country songs.



Only assuming we are all similar in our tastes in style. Otherwise NO




Yes,  A listener(s) deaming it as such.  In which case "Good or bad" is opinion, just subjective preference.

It gets worse.

"Is the turntable a musical instrument?"

How many *traditional* musicians will say "YES" ?

Fact is,  it IS  (just not accepted in a "traditional" sense *yet*)

Art forms are always evolving,  in spite and despite our going along with the change.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

One other thought on how esoteric aesthetic areas can get.  How many musicians really know what "music" means ?   Scientifically the definition is vocal or instrumentally created "sounds".  Do we know what music means in terms of universal definition ?  :shock:   There is none


Math,  Science, even Music are all man-created concepts.  Math and Science are just more inductive. Art/Music is UT THERE:  more abstract.  The fact that some say plants and animals seem to like the array of frequencies of a type of "music" might mean something, or it might not be so.  But we'll never really know..  OK,  I've driven myself crazy.. Just in time to face the real world..  Later dudes.

Stream of thought stuff on this
When dealing with any area of aesthetics,  it's tough to know what's what, take color.  Why do some people have "favorite" colors ?  Is it a conscious choice ?  or does it have to do with their brain chemistry, and affects on emotion ? What preferences are inherent, what are conditioned ?  Hot reds are often said to be colors that can induce aggression.  Is there a reason for this we know of ?  Why does it stimulate the limbic system ?  and a softer color calm a person ? Animal, etc ?

I can tell you why *I* like certain songs.  Even though a male in our culture isn't supposed to admit to this, I will regardless..  I like certain songs because to me they are "pretty".  Without going into overkill, they are attractive *to me*.  Nothing more.  Same with art.  Same with women, etc.  When I look at Superrealism, surrealism, landscape, and ability to paint and produce more intricate areas of a craft,  I look for technical expertise.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I never realized Donovan Leitch is only about 59 or 60 years old now.  He's been around as long as most that love classic rock and ballad can recall, and was a monster composer in the 1960's (psychedelic period).  An interesting little bit of trivia~

 In 1968 he taught both George Harrison, and John Lennon how to fingerpick on guitar.  This info is on his site, and written in his biography. I suppose there's really no way today to confirm it's validity though so I'll buy it

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Those of you with a better memory than I have (and I SHOULD know this myself).

Is the group "Chicago's" full name "Chicago Transit Authority" ?  or was
"Transit Authority" an early album from the group Chicago ?


ADDED IN:

OK, thanks everyone for all your help,  I found the answer  LOL

Chicago Transit Authority (first album)

This album produced several hits after Chicago II first put the band on the charts. Top songs include Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is, Beginnings and Questions 67 & 68.

This is a very raw, rocking album. Terry Kath's guitar playing dominates this record, which is a good thing. It is a very live sounding album, possibly because the band had to record the entire double-sided affair in just two weeks with no significant prior studio experience.

Someday on side four includes live recordings of protesters at the 1968 Democratic convention, held in the city of Chicago. Following it is a lengthy jam called Liberation.

I'm a Man, a rare cover song (for the classic era) has become a concert staple for the band. South Carolina Purples lets Kath stretch out on some electric blues, while Listen opens with an incredible sustained guitar note.

Free Form Guitar may be the most controversial song on the album. Kath was fooling around with feedback during a lunch break and the engineer, Fred Catero, decided to open up some microphones and roll the tape. It reminds me of some of Jimi Hendrix' experimental playing.

CTA stayed on the album charts for what was then a record amount of time.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Here's an interesting little webpage for any rock/pop history buff's out there.
Today In Rock History

http://www.bgo-records.com/today/today_ ... istory.htm

As I remember the band's former name was Chicago Transit Authority and then as soon as they skyrocketed they shortened their name to Chicago...

That's the thing, I too vaguely recall them being called "Chicago Transit Authority" for a short time.  Since they were relatively new however, I wasn't certain if my recollection was based upon mistakes a few DJ's made confusing their 2nd released Album and Live Concert "Transit Authority" around that time, with their bandname. And, of course the fact that their actually is a "Chicago Transit Authority".  Now the more that I think back,  I'm starting to wonder if they HAD to change their name to just "Chicago" because the Chicago Transit Authority had the rights to that particular name during that time.

(I hope I don't have to go into a Terry Kath or Peter Citera fanclub to dig this up).

Or, Did they lock antlers with Frank Sinatra for his song title ?

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

OK,  Dug up some interesting info.

You are correct Cantstopsinging.  They did shorten their name to just Chicago. My vague memory regarding some pending litigation with the actual Transit Authority is also cited in the Wikipedia history of the Band,  for their name change.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_(band)

It appears that they formed in Chicago in 1967.
They moved to LA around 1968.
In 1969 briefly decided to take the name CTA, until the actual CTA got a court
injunction. (or something similar). They shortened the name back to the original
name.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

it is widely accepted that they got their big break when Blood Sweat & Tears faded from the recording and touring scene...from memory I think they (BST) opted to go to Vegas but I may be wrong there. Anyway with them out of the way the path was clear for Chicago to take centre stage

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Believe it or not,  Blood Sweat and Tears toured recently.  Or at least I heard they reformed and did a tour with Chuck Negron (Three Dog Night) as vocalist instead of David Clayton Thomas. DCT although he had a spectacular VERY powerful voice made a few mistakes with his big mouth during concerts.  BS&T were really a spectacular group,  hard to believe they disbanded so long ago. I miss these horn bands. From your area too Morgan, AWB was quite a decent band. Australia. I liked them.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Say goodbye to the Godfather Of Soul!  James Brown, has died at age 73.  :crying2:
Man he was cool!

http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/Music/1 ... index.html


Here's some JB songs to listen to:

I'll Go Crazy -
http://www.yousendit.com/download/OTTKwoayBId5TA==
Think -
http://www.yousendit.com/download/OTTKwoZTBId5TA==
Cold Sweat -
http://www.yousendit.com/download/OTTKwqlJwLh5TA==
I Got You (I Feel Good) -
http://www.yousendit.com/download/OTRMtcrIkY95TA==
Lickin' Stick -
http://www.yousendit.com/download/OTRMtSggkY95TA==

Holy Xit !

  We've lost a HUGE name in the music world !  Sorry to hear about this !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Lifted from Bigdog's thread
Re: Are there any actual professional singers/teachers on the site?  
     


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Agreed,  Another very important aspect that *I* always try to take shortcuts around but you can't is WARMING UP first. If I don't do exercizes, or stretch.. and then sit at the piano trying to play something that involves some finger dexterity, or just playing certain runs/ riffs on a guitar,  I strain something now.. Sure it makes me feel like a wuss,  especially when we grew up with the "No pain no gain" push til it hurts mentality, learning to ignore discomfort. That no longer can be applied as we get older.. A younger teenage body is in pretty good shape,  it also has an elasticity and self-repairing ability that middle-aged and older folks don't have.  We need to make adjustments as we age... Osteoarthritis is real, bone density changes and a friend of mine spiral fractured his wrist just turning a screwdriver too hard a few weeks ago. Scary as all hell, but these things are real.  Bones become more brittle, sprains take longer to mend. Tears stay sore.... So rather than female dog and moan,  I think I'm going to lift these posts, and move them to my music and musician thread.. Changing neck action on string instruments became a real necessity, even string gauge. I consulted with  a few others regarding this area.  There really is a conflict between what we are taught when young and learning, and principles that we must throw away when we are old..."You should be sore afterwards" is something most beginning musicians learn to live with when doing something new and different with their body...All I hear now is "Be careful" don't strain yourself... Sheesh..

"What a drag it is getting Old"..

..and even so, many still say that discomfort is a natural part of aging.  So WHEN do you ignore it, and when is it a sign you are doing something wrong ?  This is a tough tough balance to learn IMO.. When I studied music while young, my instructors had that drill sgt mentality.  "Just do it and don't whine about it"...  Now I admit, I'm confused..  


So,  What adjustments have a few of you vocalists found you needed to make over the past 20 years of your life regarding warming up, things you know you SHOULD do, but like myself, you are in a certain amount of denial regarding not being 17 years old still.. So you don't do these things, and pay a price... Some even quit all together.  Do any of you that are 45+ still push yourself til something hurts when doing your music ?  Just curious, if-so what ?   I really don't know what to ignore, and what to avoid in most areas of musicianship.  Never consulted a medical authority on this stuff... Don't really think MOST have a clue about this type thing anyway... Not many music injury specialists around either
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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".