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I play alot in some bars real tight spaces and some times have a great problem with extreme feedback. I use pretty good wireless mics true diversity type, I also have been using a sabine FBX2020 plus feedback exterminator but the problems comes in when a sing starts to walk around and walks in front of a speaker, I am going to upgrade to sabine's new unit the fbx2400 hopefully that might do it .
Any suggestions would greatly help Thanks Mike

Speaker placement is much more of a factor in feedback than anything else. No matter how much "feedback suppression" equipment you buy, if a singer is going to point a mic in the direction of you main cabs, you are going to have feedback.

So forget buying more equipment, it probably is going to be a waste of money.

Describe as best you can your setup, and where the speakers are in relation to the singers and the audience.

What you really need is to somehow reposition the speakers so that the crowd can still hear them but so that the sound field never comes in direct contact with your mic's gain structure.

This may mean pointing the speakers in a different direction, jacking them up HIGHER over the singer's heads, or scooting them closer to the audience.

Just think of the sound waves coming out of your speaker, especially the horn, at a 45-90 degree angle then visualize the possible places where the grill of the mic are going to be in contact with those sound waves, and reposition your speakers in the most efficient place possible to minimize this factor while still hitting the audience.

Again, if you need more help, try to describe where everything is in your bar and I'll help you figure out where to move everything, but remember that more equipment is definately not going to solve your problem!!

If the singers are going to walk in front of your speakers with the wireless mic no matter where you put the speakers, your best bet would probably be to jack the speakers up over their heads. Most speaker stands seem to fly the woofer portion of speakers about 6'6" in the air, so unless you have a bunch of particularly tall singers, this may be your best bet!!

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C Mc
KJ, FL

I was worried this is the trouble the real problem is space limitations, ceiling highth,
area to spread out the speakers and soforth. I have tried them on the floor and seems to help feedback when they walk in front of back then loose the sound quility inf the back of bar long narrow bars

Mike

I am no expert..But I don't thing there is nothing that will stop feedback if you have singers that walk in front of your speakers.  The key in you situation (small room) is speaker placement , finding the right spot to put your speakers to avoid the feedback issue is the key.

Thanks For the suggestions I will work on my speaker placment and see what happens

Walking in front of speakers will cause feedback no matter what processors you have - unles syour volume is low where it wouldn't matter, but that's probably not the case.

Build a small stage or designate a singer area to eliminate them walking around.

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sometimes, especially in smaller venues, you can turn the speakers to face the wall... they're driving enough sound to still reach the audience... and it should negate the speaker feedback, or a great deal of it.

but no matter what, TRAIN your customers to either turn off the mics or to lower them out of the speaker range!

Or you may want to use wired mics, it keeps the singer tied to the "stage" and away from the speakers.

At one time I thought about going to wireless mics, and bought a cheapie from Rat Shack, and used it to see what happened.  And yes, people wandered in front of the speakers, or were at the back of the bar when the song ended.  It was way to much hassle, so I keep using wired mics to tie the singer to the "stage".

But barring that, do try turning the speakers to the wall, like KNIGHTSHOW said.  See how it sounds, and perhaps that could eliminate the problem

Hobby, I use the same setup as you appear to be using.   I have no feedback eliminater of any kind.    I have a compressor.   Helps some.     I have used every speaker setup know to man and some even unknown.     A microphone pointed at any speaker is asking for trouble.    

The more reverb you have on the microphone the more sensative it is to feedback.    First thing I do is set the volume of the music, them the singers volume.   If I am getting feedback I see where they are standing.   If I can get them to move a little bit, I will.  If that doesn't work, I start turning down the reverb and the microphone together.     If it's still feeding back and you can not hear the singers any more turn down the music to match the microphone volume.   I tell singers before the song starts to move from infront of the speaker.     Then tell them to keep the microphone near their mouth when not singing.    If it starts to feedback, it's them not me.   Make sure the microphone channel isn't red-lining.   Cut back the channel gain.     Keep the red lights from coming on.

My tried-and-true theory and feedback and it's elimination is that if the reflected sound coming from the speakers are louder than the singer's voice, you're going to get feedback. even in a smallroom make sure your main cabinets are not reflecting directly into the mic. I've also found that by adjusting the singer's tones to get them as flat as possible, you can cut some feedback sources too. I also used wired mics for that reason...they can't stray in front of the mains! I know I'm probably less technical in my explanation of feedback, but I've found with good speaker placement, one can eliminate feedback. I've hosted small, medium and large spaces and have always had to adjust the speaker angles to avoid feedback.

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Nothing's harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example. - Mark Twain

Someone mentioned training the audience....this is the best idea if you want to keep your wireless mics.

Whenever there is feedback at my show, it is ALWAYS the singer either cupping the mic or pointing it at a speaker, usually the monitor. To get rid of the immediate feedback, I will usually cut the mic gain or cut the speaker volume, whichever is the source. Then, at the end of the song, I will literally stop everything and show the audience exactly why there was feedback, though I do it in a playful way so I don't embarass the singer who caused the feedback.

This works on two levels: First, believe it or not whenever there is feedback, the crowd assumes it is YOUR fault. They need the education to show that the singer is the one causing the feedback. Second, it is going to teach other singers not to make the same mistakes, and eventually you'll have a crowd of peeps who know how to hold a mic and not point it towards speakers!!

Remember that 99% of your singers and even about 75% of KJs don't know what feedback actually is, so you have to educate them in simple terms on how to avoid it!!

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C Mc
KJ, FL

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