Karaoke Forums

You do not adjust for different singers?  Wow this is the eq that generally needs to be adjusted more than anything, I have never had 2 singers that sounded the same.  Just last night I one guy that completely had no high end in his vocals, so those got boosted, then another that needed no eq'ing at all.  Another that had alot of bass in his voice naturally so the bass got cut.  If a singer can't cut through the mix, you can alter the eq of the music as well to help the singer cut through better.  
The gain is another thing that shouldn't be touched once set.  You should adjust singer volume through the fader/slider at the bottom of the channel.

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You set your settings for the singer by how you remember hearing the original singer? I must be misunderstanding what your saying. Don't you set your settings for each person to sound their best?

I may be misunderstanding this also. You don't change anything on your board all night, but your volume?

I set settings different for every singer. I step off the stage several times a night to make sure the sound in the room is set correctly. What I hear on stage is completely different than what is heard by the audience. Especially early in the night. I find it more difficult when the room is more empty and the owner wants the over all volume lower. Because I'm not using a compressor yet (my bad) I do a lot of tweeking.

BD - please clarify - I can't believe you don't make changes at all all night, but volume.

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The correct way to enhance sound is by the use of the EQ sweep controls (the “twisty knobs”) on the mixing board, which are to be adjusted for EVERY song and EVERY singer (if necessary). The post-mix EQ is used for MINOR adjustments in the sound of the overall mix - notice that Lonman's equalizers (see above picture) are almost flat-lined.  It is impossible for the purpose of karaoke sound reinforcement to achieve consistently good sound relying on the “home stereo” mentality of equalization.

Karaoke music is VERY inconsistent when is comes to recording standards.  There are obvious differences between the various karaoke brands but even songs from the same manu are radically different in this regard.  For example, the Sound Choice version of "Let's Groove" by Earth, Wind & Fire (SC8207-10) has a lot of bass, yet the SC version of "Love Train" by the O'Jays (SC7533-05) needs the bass cranked up big time to make it sound good. "The Dance" by Garth Brooks on DK (74-01 on the 1-99 set) has too many "highs" and you certainly need to adjust this one to get it to sound right.  

Then there's the issue of EQing vocals.  When you're dealing with, perhaps, 20 to 30 different singers you have to adjust the EQ sweeps to get the best sound out of each of them.  Also, depending on the song, it is often necessary to adjust the EQ a little different for the same singer doing different songs.  For example, you can have one singer sing “I Walk The Line” by Johnny Cash (low vocal range) and for his next song he sings “Roll With It” by Steve Winwood (high vocal range).  I can assure you the vocal EQ will most likely need to be adjusted a little different for each of these songs.



So, Bigdog, if someone sings "Smooth" how do you create Rob Thomas' vocal sound by using just reverb and volume???  I'll tell you - you can't without adjusting EQ sweeps.

I’m sorry, but I don’t call merely making volume adjustments and adjusting reverb REAL sound mixing.  Mixing board manufacturers put EQ sweep controls on their boards FOR A PURPOSE.  

I’ve been to too many shows where the KJ acts like he is afraid to actually touch his mixing board when there are obvious EQ issues in the mix.  I have yet to hear GOOD sound at a karaoke show from a system where the EQ sweeps are untouched for the duration of the show.  I’ve also been to too many shows where the KJ gets bad sound out of a good PA system. The KJs who adhere to the principle that EVERY song and EVERY singer REQUIRES a custom mix (like Lonman) are the ones who have good sound.

AHH, he back tracks and admits that the sounds does change from ROOM to ROOM....Hmmmmmmm....TO get a consistand sound, perhaps adjust the EQ for the different rooms would be necessary.



Perhaps mif you had a clue, you would know that you do have to adjust as the night goes on.  Crowd size changes, crowd placement changes, it all affects how it sounds.  I do a walk through the crowd at least every 15 minutes or soo to see how it sounds.  I actually care if it sounds good or not, and try to get the best overall mix.

Most of the times the channel EQ will quickly fix a problem with a singers voice (eg. Too low, to high).  As far as changes in the room (larger crowd, smaller crowd) that requires some adjustment on the EQ.

Again lil dog, you have no clue on how to run sound.  I see now why you don't want to disclose your location.  You are probably one of thoes hacks, on a shoe box system that runs on a illegal loaded hard drive bought off ebay, that you complain about constantly.

He's right I've never noticed the sound difference of the three different rooms we currently play.  One with 10' ceilings 25'x45', one with 15' ceilings 30'x60', and the one with 20' ceilings 40'x80'.  Never had to adjust anything when playing these rooms.  Just plug in and turn on.  NOT.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

I will describe once again how I originally set up the system.


I played and sang to hunderds of songs.    Slow, country, rock, etc.    During each song I would make adjustments to the EQ twistys.    After many many songs I began to notice that when each song was over the twistys would be at or near the same setting for most of the songs.     So I picked a setting that was going to sound good for 99% of the songs.   That is where they stay.    I have said that once in a while, someone will say that a certain song has too much bass or too tinny.   This happens less than once every 2 months.

So I really only have to adjust the volume and reverb controls to get the music and vocals correct.  

It does not get adjusted for every room.    Never in 14 years.     Hasn't needed to be changed.

I do not like the sound coming from the machines out of the box.    They do not have the sound I want to hear.   The EQ takes care of that.  The same with the mikes and every other pieces of equipment, I put in the system.


Believe it or not, I don't care.   I know how it sounds.    So does my competition whenever they tell people that I have the best sound around.

Once again, it has noting to do with how you originally setup the system, it has to do with changes in locations, crowds, clothing, wall types and textures, celing types and textures, and floor types.  You can be playing in the same room and it will change fro winter to summer becasue in the winter people wear more/thicker close, with is a sound inhibiting material.
Yeah, since you have no clue on how to run sound, you must not have a clue on how to setup sound.  1 amp and no crossover.

Well, this does actualy make sense and probably is true.  As you said your competion is a buch of hacks that don't care, have shoe box systems, and have no clue on how to run a good show.  So it probably wouldn't take much more than a Passport System to get a better sound than your competion.  You said it not me.

If you have a rotten apple that is 6 weeks old, brown mushy, and nasty, and compare it to a rotten apple that is only 3 weeks old, you still are comparing rotten apples.  You can dress it up, put a hat on it, say you got it from a secret location but won't revel where that location is, but you still have a rotten apple.  It is all just degrees of rottenness.

is 'rottenness" even a word.

But seriously, why do you contine to give REALY bad advice BD?  THere are a lot of newbies that pop on, and might actualy think about doing what you are doing.  Aren't we all here to try to help out others?

I have checked out your web site.   It looks to me like you don't even own a sub cabinet.     So bass means nothing to you?     Unless the phone booths you play are not big enough to need them.  



You have not heard my system so how can you decide if it sounds right?    Try adding subs.


You can't dazzle the crowd with your system, but you can shine enough colored lights in their eyes to baffle them.    They'll never know what hit them.

BD - you aren't serious are you? You basically set everything the same for every room and every person? I don't believe it. That is just silly.

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

BD PLEASE if you're going to dis' someone's system by comparing it to your own provide some proof of your statements.  Others in this forum have done exactly that ... when stating how something should be adjusted or referring to their own setup they have a technical reference and/or provide photos.  To date you have provided neither.  In fact, you have made statements that run contrary to the truth on several occasions.  What I have heard Babs and others do is ask technical questions in order to continuously upgrade their systems and improve the overall quality of their show.  They have stated that they aren't perfect (even Lonman has done this) and admit to their shortfalls - a true indicator of wisdom.

Your kneejerk egostitical comments do nothing more than waste good web space and my time.  You have commented before that time is worth money so are you willing to reimburse me for mine spent reading your submissions?

My apologies everyone else.  I just couldn't take it any more.

dsharrow, for myself, no apologies needed. I've been there a time or two myself.  I have no problem with sharing ideas; suggestions; or possibilities.  Don't mind differences of opinion. But nothing angers me or insults me more than to listen to someone who thinks they know everything and is too egotistical to know the difference.  I however have no one to blame in getting stirred up but myself.  But as Lonman said, I hate for people new to karaoke to get the idea that what he says is correct.

I've said it once and I will say it again.  And maybe this time I will take my own better advice.  "It takes two to make a conversation."    Take a "chill pill" dsharrow.  Better yet, let's have a drink.  :hi5:

Kelly

Grrrrrrrrr I am just going to have to assume the position and let Allstar spank me with the broadblade and admit I was ever wrong to defend you Big Dog. I used to frequent the yahoo jazz chat room and there is a wayne kerr in there who calls himself mongosantamaria...either you are related OR you share the same psycological imbalance and forget to take your meds.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Can't we all just get along....

  I actually stopped using my master EQ on my makie board, I did have a bad habit of tweaking the bass a little to far as the night went on...  What can I say I like thump...  I do adjust the mic channels individually for tone...  I use an EV767, Senn E835, and 2 wireless RSQs.  They each have a very different tone/sound...  

Singers never sing at the same level so I end up sliding those channels around from the Drunken "Sweet Caroline" group performance to the sweet smooth Martina McBride sound a likes ... I did a show this summer with Kids and adults and that was an adjustment nightmere... my fingers grew stiff... Quiet Kids...  Well Beer-ed screaming partent...  If you want to see how good your mic is at preventing feedback try a whispering 8-year old at a 700 person outdoor picnic karaoke contest, singing Genie In a Bottle(it was very long 4 minutes, as a side note after seeing the lyrics I decided you should be 18 or older to sing it  :shock: )...

 I used a big rackmount EQ for a while but ditched it after I bought my Sonic Maximer.  What I find is by maniplating the high and low contour, I have the 482i, it produces a rich sound.  It not the Grateful Deads Wall of sound, but it sounds really good to me...  I do make a small adjustments depending on the number of people and volume if I have to start pumping out a big venue...  I have been on a kick lately to make all my equipment lighter so everything that is not a necessary I have be taking out of my road cases... My rackmount eq was a victim

 The shows where I have had to do the most tweaking and challenge is large open outside gigs.  I do a couple of outdoor picnics every year and is tough... I spend a lot of time listening to the mix at 20 feet, 100ft, and 200ft.  I shoot for the best sound is the 20-100 zone.  I find with a little breeze your mix can start to sound a little edgie...

To sum it up...
*** I don't tweak my master eq very much if at all, I set tone with each channel depending on the source.  I use a sonic maximer a little bit on both the high and low contour

*** Big rooms I may adjust the somic maximizer more on the highs

*** Outside I find very hard and I have to work at it... If the wind is blowing at some point I run out of time and start my show...

*** I agree that singers are not the same... I have to pull back on the crazy males and mic swallowers, and boost the kids or people whose friends made them sing...

I value everyones opinion and hope my two cents added some value!
Best Regards,
BigBob


Factoids:  
Live in Virginia
All Carvin system(subs, Cabs, Amps) with Mackie DFX12 board
BBE 482i1 sonci maximizer
EV767, E835(my favorite mic), and RSQ UHF wireless(Drunk Proof but hollow)
MP3s using Compuhost - Love the software
I bought every CD and burned them myself using Disk Juggler (took forever)
Laptop with Audiology sound card
Former DJ(Radio, Club, Outdoor), Percussionist for both Rock and Contemporary Christian bands, and indoor/outdoor KJ.
Father of 2 under 2 and I love it...  

PS... Sorry for the long response...  everyone is sleeping...  I never appreciated my time on the computer so much before... Time to go catch up on Stargate SG-1.  :dancin:

I get plenty of bass for the venues I play.  If I need a sub for say an event, I go and rent one with a CROSSOVER.  Do you even on a crossover, or know that it is necessary to have a crossover with subs?


Just by know that you don't use a crossover, don't adjust you eq for each room, and basicaly use the eq as a preamp, I KNOW it will sound like a rotten apple.

Like I said before, you say you have the best sound in your area, but then say all your competiors are hacks with shoe box systems.  So if you are comparing you system to total crap (yur words not mine), how good can yours be?

Great rebuttal!  I love it!!!  LMAO  LMAO  LMAO

Whenever the EQ is switched off and on, the volume doesn't increase, the fullness, depth and richness of the sound increases.   If I was using it to boost the volume it would be acting as a pre amp.     I'm not.     Volume sliders make my sound get louder.  :O  Not the EQ.

I have never played a gig without my entire system.   If it's so small that I can't get the 2 tops and 2 bottoms into a gig, I will leave it for the HACKS that use 1 or 2 speakers and dazzling lights.     You know, it's good enough for karaoke.    Why use a whole system, when half will do?  LMAO    I can baffle them with lights and over EQing.    :shock:


Babs, Read it again.    I listened to [highlight=crimson]hundreds[/highlight] of songs and made EQ adjustments for each one.  After a while the settings were ending up in approximately the same place.    So I have the EQ twisties set to the average of all of the hundreds of songs that I very carefully listened to.    I just didn't say this looks like a good setting.     Hundreds of song later, I came to my average EQ settings.

The singers get the Microphone volume mixed.   I add the reverb and mix the music volume.    It's all I have to do.    My EQ settings "homework" has already been done.    99% of the songs sound perfect.     My microphone EQs are set.   The music EQs are set.    Much better than having the system sound totally different by the end of the night.    It sounds consistent.     You clearly hear the lows, the mids and the highs, song after continuous song.    No dance/filler added.    If you are constantly changing the settings for every song, your system will never sound the same twice.   I know because we fired a guy that thought he had to do it all night.   He had the system sounding horrible at the end of the night.

Again, you would have to hear it to know how good it sounds.     If you sang on it you would think I mixed you very well.

Maybe.... when you constantly only play with half a system (NO SUBS) you have to EQ all night long.   You're fighting to make half a system sound like a whole one.     I don't have to.    Oh and make sure all the baffling colored lights work.


If you are playing dance/filler music, I can see why you have to do EQing all night long.    No way regular music CDS sound like karaoke cds.   That could be why you don't believe me.