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I have looked at the new Yamaha speaker specs.    They have increased the power output.   This is a good thing.   But I just noticed their big evironmentally friendly Particle board speaker box construction.     Claiming It's made from Eastern Pine, a fast growing renewable item.  

My first set of Yamahas were particle board, which you can not tell until the covers start to get some usage.     I got caught in the rain once with them.     I had a swelling problem with one of them.   The back started to stick out past the intended edge.  :O

I was seriously considering an upgrade with a new set of Yamahas, until I read this disturbing news.    :(   I am pretty much soured on them now.  :yes:   Not totally ruled out, but not at the top of the list.   I love the sound, but I realy hate particle board.    I wouldn't build a dog house out of particle board.    :O  :shock:  :no:  

So the search is on for quality speakers made of real plywood.     No phony wood for me.

I have been searching.   So far I see 5 companies that use birch or similar plywood.

JBL
QSC
Mackie
Peavey
Yorkville

I love my turbosound speakers 5/8" REAL birch plywood.

That and they will kill any other speakers sound clairity on the market.

Back in the 60's I had this Sunn Colliseum bass cab that sounded great.  Of course the thing weighed about 400 lbs (which even for a 2x15 cab was quite heavy in the 60's).  I think the cab was fiberglass.  When we are talking HUGE bass bin, or something very large, I can see composite plastic,  fiberglass, etc.  My first choice in smaller cabs of course is WOOD.  Thing is,  companies are getting into other materials even for resonating instruments such as guitars, basses, and orchestral instruments (and have been for a LONG time).  Many school rental basses (stand up) are fiberglass. Martin now makes a graphite guitar, as do other companies (Charlie Kaman introduced plastic to the guitar market YEARS ago...but even prior ukes and large rental instruments sounded OK and still projected volume and were fiberglass of course TONE quality is quite questionable but it's a convenience, durability, cost trade-off). School sousaphones were fiberglass, In the 40's Clarinets were also made of metal for a time... A great player could fool the ear... (Not sure how many really could tell the difference between ebony, and metal timbre if Benny Goodman is playing the licorice stick. Saxes sound pretty good made of metal...

Personally,  I don't know that plastic is always a bad thing in cab construction.  I don't know about Graphite or Fiberglass construction, yet it's probably fine in some cases... Sure beats a dinged up enclosure made of mahogany or Cherry IMO... You should see a Hammond B-3 after one time getting moved  :(   It's ashame to ding a nice wood quality cab IMO...

JMO... Depending on size.  when HUGE... I'd opt fpr NON-wood (of course not Particle board either).... but fiberglass, especially graphite... To me,  it's worth the hernia.. I HATE dinging my cabs

We seem to live in a world where there's becoming a paucity of "real woods" especially the decent woods.  Even the cheaper basswoods.  Furniture is particle board,  most guitars these days are laminates.  Of course realwood in order to look nice in an archtop, or handsanded finished top if solid is A LOT of handwork, labor intensive time, and birdseye maple and nice finishes just aren't often affordable for many.  So companies use laminated woods, particle board, and save the REAL wood for folks that want to spend the money.  Nothing sickened me more than my Formica Danelectro... Countertop over particle board just isn't what I opt for in a musical instrument.  For inlay,  Mother of Toilet seat is fine,  but Formica just isn't a great guitar surface IMO

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I Also Use -4- YAMAHA CLUB SERIES 15 INCH fOR Mains, I still think they are the best Sounding (BANG FOR THE BUCK) Speakers at $300 Each, ...BUT If I Was In the market for new speakers I Agree With LYQUIDDYE, The TURBOSOUND TXD-151 Would be What I Would Purchase at $499.99 (You Could Probably Bargain Them Down To $450 At GUITAR CENTER). These Speakers Have INCREDIBLE CLARITY In The $300-$600 Price Range. Audition These If You Can Before You BUY!

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Man Must Know His Limitations -Clint Eastwood

They make alot of car stereo sub boxes out of plexiglass, which I'm sure has similar properties to fiberglass but is a bit heavier and definately more rugged. I would think that some PA company that was trying to make a lightweight cab would try this route instead of plastic, since the plexiglass is certainly lighter than wood and has much better acoustic properties than cheap plastic (like the plastic Peavey cabs).

Big Dog, which Yamaha speakers were you looking at? The BR series or the club (V)series? Could you provide a link to the new specs?

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C Mc
KJ, FL

Most car sub boxes made out of plexi are done so mainly for the visual aspect in competition, not necessarily acoustic properties, although when built correctly, they do seem to sound pretty good.

http://yamaha.com/yamahavgn/Documents/P ... re_rev.pdf
They are made with a high density particle board, but then many speaker are as well.

Peavey that are made with the Baltic Birch 9 ply is the SP & QW series, all the others are particle or MDF fiber board - or plastic.  But remember Peavey likes the correct power rating meaning probably an amp change.
JBL uses 7 ply plywood for all their wood enclosures.
Mackies - both passive & active use Baltic Birch for all their wood enclosures - remember Mackie wood enclosures are designed by EAW.
QSC is great stuff, pricey, but worth it!  They also are real power hungry.
Yorkville wood enclosures are all either Baltic Birch plywood or ply wood.

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For certain frequencies, and applications.  Fiberglass, High impact plastic aren't necessarily a bad thing weighing pro's and con's.  You get into large instruments like this, and a few decent makes make fiberglass bodies and composite instruments for durability as well as sound.

http://www.samash.com/catalog/showitem. ... ecentItems


 You get a horn this large, and you transport it all over the place,  March with it... you ding and bang the thing all over... Fiberglass is just more practical.   Although it does look sort've funny to see fiberglass instruments offered with solid hardshell wood cases IMO... ..   Thing is, at certain frequencies, given certain applications..  I'm not acoustically knowledgable enough to take the "snob" approach..  I owned a Dan Armstrong plexiglass bass guitar.  I've played plexi guitars,  even the plexi strat (similar to Baxters Strat)..  They don't sound THAT bad.. and they are cool looking...  Companies have been making plastic instruments for years... I don't know about the resonation properties of certain substances... Ovation guitars (Kaman aerospace) get their share of bashing, but the ADAMAS upper-end sound VERY nice to me in fiberglass and graphite even acoustically.  For bass response,  I don't know if I could tell the difference between a plastic guitar, a guitar made of metal, or a wood guitar given electronics today. Art amplifiers were also made of plastic in the 70's..  These were combo guitar amps.  If synths can produce great tones.  What's to say electronics alone can't ?  Amp and guitar construction in the electric era becomes somewhat less crucial.  Even my JBL home speakers are Cherry Wood.. You can't easily send them in for repair without worrying about the things getting knicked to all hell... So I have to say, with such little knowledge about acoustical engineering,  I sit on the fence with this stuff... Traditionally Wood is what we know, however can plastic and partical board not sound so-so ?  Sure it can sound decent.  My own feelings are the biggest step down in musical instrument production regarding tonal aspects, came when Tube gave way to transister.  THAT was a big step down... Real Wood, Vs Plactic vs Particle board is a much smaller alteration IMHO...

I'm not going to play the snob game.... meaning

"Unless it's solid wood, it sucks"... I get sick of hearing this by wannabe protege's who think that like Eric Johnson, they can tell what battery is in a stomp box.. I'm just not that sensitive...  I know few that are.  Electronics plays such a large part, as does design, materials become less important as speaker efficiency changes over time.  Also given onboard electronics, active aspects....plastic can sound quite good these days,,  but so could a slab of metal

Bab's,  Jazzy, or any horn players that are more recently into this area of music..  What are the schools of thoughts on figerglass these days on larger horns such as sousaphones,  bari-horns, bass horns, etc ?  In 1968 I played stand-up bass in Jr. High orchestra.. It was black plastic.... Sounded OK to me.  Didn't ding or chip either !  ALso was lighter to transport

ADDED IN:


Gibson has been using something they call Chromyte tech for ages in their guitars as well.  Howard Roberts fusion, and certain LP's to lighten the weight, they use metal chambers hollowed out..  All sorts of tricks with other substances these days.

Also is pressed board necessarily a bad thing in speaker construction.  On the inside of a cab you want to dampen it and muffle sound anyway, correct ?  You don't want a high density wood that's going to conduct sound vibration, and vibrate all over the place.  Inside speakers are muffled.  In such a case, why would press-board be a bad thing ?

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

If we were discussing oboes woodwind instrunents or violins we could be discussing diiferent woods.. We could even debate whether steaming the wood has a long term positive effect.  Actually the number and size of knots in a wood changes it's resonance.

 However the type of wood or material in speaker cabs is rather miniscule in comparison to other factors. I have installed sound systems in no less than 100-200 bars lounges bowling alleys etc...

The number one component in overall design is speaker location specifically  in relation to the wall and direction determined by room shape and size. It is similar to hanging lights to distribute the same amount of light throughout.The second factor is room size (inculding ceiling height), shape and then materials used wall, ceiling floor (carpeted?)and things in the room that act as sound baffles. Even the sound has to be tailored for crowd size ...

Now... I could take just about any major brand horn and 15-16" speakers and using 50# monofilament fishing line hang them in the right locations from the ceiling without baffles or cabs.. It would take some time and tweaking but I would wind up with a sound system that would blow away most of the systems discussed here. Im not saying this to be smart or egotistical etc... I am trying to prove a point ... The speaker brand or cab material OR WATTTAGE is only one parameter in the overall equation. Anybody can put a couple of speakers on a stand and feed them 40 million watts and Yea that sounds good.. An expert can take an otherwise mediocre system and make it sound good..

So next time you set up whether in a new location or old try things that improve your sound Learn what power alleys are.. Learn how bass adds or subtracts One of the old tests to see if speakers are in phase is face them towards each about 2 feet apart if they are out of phase the bass cancels When they are in phase the bass adds exponentially.. Engineers and most make it complicated but really  its not .. Its common sense and experimentation... I have always had one philosophy KISS Keep it it simple stupid...

Edit: In the above experiment I would like to use the horn an 15"

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I understand what you say about the perfect location.   In 99% of the bars we play in, there are no perfect locations for the speakers.   Now we must rely on the cabinets and guts.    

So in the 200 bars did you use wood speaker cabinets or plastic or particle board?

What is your recommendation?

I don't care for the sound of most plastic cabs, if I had the choice, & funds available it would always be a wood cab.

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It I were to buy a new speaker, the first spec I will look for is the weight. Everything being equal I will go for the lighter one. I will not want to lift anything more than 18 kg.

So most likely my next speaker will be non-wood.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

In the real world one has to evaluate each installation and design each for cost effectiveness. There are many factors to consider such as the size of the venue and number of customers. I have seen venues that took in an average of $300/wk for the jukebox. Obviously in that situation you can spend more time with maintenance and use top of the line components.

There are three basic types of speakers used.For large venues the 70 volt system is used with free space ceiling mount speakers such as these.  They have a plastic cover for protection but it has nothing to do with audio quality. They have different wattage taps and you can string 40 dozen of them The limit as to number is the current capacity of the 70 volt power supply. The audio quality is a tad less than surface or wall mounts or even 8 ohm but usually they are used for actual public address announcements too. Ten 20 watt speakers that distribute the sound over an area is alot cleaner sound than a single over driven 200 watt speaker.

Another type is the outdoor horn (headaches)

The more common type is the surface or wall mount. Probably most of those we used was light weight pressed wood We werent concerned with the material in the cab other than the fact could we hang it securely and move on to the next step Everybody that worked at High Country Games and Music had the old Wurlitzer Wr-14 or Wr-18 wall speakers for their home stereos.  We loved to walk into an old bar with them hanging on the walls “Well the first thing we got to do is get rid of those old speakers.” Remember the old oval type?  They were one of the best speakers ever made.

A well designed wood cab will sound better than high impact polystyrene such as these in some situations.. But to say they are necessary or the best in all situations is ridiculous. Again one has to go with the most cost effective choice or the one that fits the situation.

We did hang one of the big carolons on a church roof.. That was the first and last time...

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Just like you, I do not want to lift large and heavy speakers time and time again.  That's why I bought the Yorkville NX55P speakers (41 lbs) and the Carvin TRX118B sub (78 lbs).
I am very happy with the Yorkville NX55P speakers.  They are small, lightweight, and sound great.  They are rather expensive, but well worth the money.
If you want lightweight speakers that are made of wood, consider the Carvin TRX122.  

TRX122 - 12" 300w 2-way Monitor/main
This powerful compact monitor/main speaker is ideal for stage monitoring vocals with its sweet high end, balanced mids and tight low end. The cabinet is design with a 45 degree tilt for normal monitoring and a 62.5 degree tilt for near field monitoring. Also with its 8 fly points and pole mount it works for front of house mains in smaller venues and dance clubs.

Enclosure: Cross grain laminated 13 ply Baltic birch
Finish: Black DuraTex
Size: 16W x 12.5D x 20.5H", 32 lbs

I saw these speakers at a local Carvin store and they are actually built better than the overpriced speakers being sold at GC and Sam Ash.  I know that y'all don't like Carvin because you think that their speakers are crap.  I beg to disagree.  If I hadn't bought the Yorkville NX55P, I would buy a pair of the TRX122 in a heartbeat because they are sweet sounding speakers, lightweight, made with 13 ply Baltic birch plywood, finished beautifully with black DuraTex, and priced reasonably.

JMO.

A buddy of mine packed around some JBL Soundfactor 2500's for a year or two. He called me one day and said what are those eons like a guy wants to trade for my soundfactors. Lets go gettem while the gettens good!!!!

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Trade a set of Sound Factors for a set of EON's, ANYDAY!  Your friend was smart, the SF line was a real stinker

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And believe it or not he was driving them with a Mackie 808....Oh god the good old days....

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