Karaoke Forums

Let's talk about ethics.    

I had a guy approach me last might to play over for a half hour for $30.   He's the same guy that gave me $50 to play over 2 weeks ago.   Anyway his friend has a bar.   The owner really wants me to play at his bar.    He tried to offer me more money than I usually charge, to quit a steady gig to do his bar.

I make money from my reputation.   Part of my reputation relies on my word.    My verble contract/commitment.    If I would sell out  my current bar to take more money, is not part of my plan.   I feel that my reputation for honesty, integrity and dependability will be harmed.     I do not want to have people say that I am not a credible person.    I would not do it to him, so why should he expect me to do it for him?     I would consider it if the first bar was not paying full money like they should be.     Or if the crowd situation was getting uncontrollable because the bar owner didn't give a rip.      I would never do it on principle for the money.   My reputation makes me money.   My reputation could cost me money.
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 LMAO  LMAO  LMAO  LMAO  LMAO  LMAO  LMAO  LMAO

Yeah no one here would think that!  My gawd I have to wipe my monitor clean, I happened to be drinking a Coke at the time.  That is the funniest thing i've read in a long time!

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[shadow=deepskyblue]I'm impressed, I've never met such a small mind inside such a big head before.[/shadow]

That's a tough one BD. If you think you would be as happy as you are
in the place your in I would go to the owner and tell him you got this offer, but wanted to be fair with him. If nothing else maybe he'll give you more money.
Is it a significant amount more?

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

IF, your ethics are as good as you say, then why the thought of even bringing the topic up about yourself.  You DO quite often on here toss verbage in regard to how much you make.  I can't help but take that as money is very important to you.

So, I take your post as to your trying to decide what to do.  If that's the case I don't think your very sincere about your ethics.  And if it's to impress that your being offered more money for another gig, great, go for it.

Just be honest to your present boss and give him the opportunity to offer you the same deal before you leave.  IF, your as good as you say you are, my bet would be he would pay you the extra money to keep you there.

Kelly

Alright, let's see how he twists this one around to suit him!

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[shadow=deepskyblue]I'm impressed, I've never met such a small mind inside such a big head before.[/shadow]

A bird in the hand.....

Is the best way to eat chicken!

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[shadow=deepskyblue]I'm impressed, I've never met such a small mind inside such a big head before.[/shadow]

I smell something...
Did lilDOG step in his on pooh???????
I to can't wait to see the reply

BD
I'm not sure it's an ethical question or one of a business decision?

I'm assuming your current gig offers no promise of employment  and you have no contracual obligation to perform there?

So if you're happy at your current gig and feel comfortable both with the pay and the outlook for future employment STAY there . NO big deal !!!!!

On the other hand if you think the NEW offer is a long term viable option with MORE money and that appeals to you ---Give NOTICE to your current employer and go for it !!!!

What is the ethical dilema ?

I was just relaying a situation that happen last night.   He really loves me.      My system and the nonstop karaoke music and my outstanding singing ability.      I can't blame him.      The job he wants me to quit is 12 minutes from my house.     His job is at least 35-45 minutes away+turnpike fees and a lot of gas.     His offer is only $25 a night more.     I'll save more by staying closer to home.     On gas, oil changes, tires, turnpike, driving time, sleep.      This all goes back to the, taking a wedding and blowing off your regularly scheduled weekly gig for a few extra dollars, thread.     I want to preserve my spectacular reputation and stay where I am.

The original job is solid.    I'm pretty sure his would be solid, too.    Also he's one that wants special singing privledges because he's paying you.     I can't go for that nooooo... no can do, no I can't go for that.... can't go for that, can't go for that...

I could go to the old bar owner and relay my better offer.    But I could do that any day of the week.    :whistle:   They never question anything.   The money is always there.


There is no ethical dilemma with me.    I know other KJs that would switch in a heartbeat.      The question is how are your ethics.      Do you think someone that jumps ship for no other reason than $25 a night is unethical?     Do you worry about your reputation?

Why would it be unethical?  We live in a free market society, there is nothing remotely unethical about making a decision like that.   Your word may be your bond, but it doesn't mean your word should put you into indentured servitude either.    People leave jobs and go to other jobs all the time, why is this situation any different?

Whether it's a good business decision or not is a completely different issue.

You need to be someone that can be counted on to do what you said you would do.   If you are a continuos job hopper, how do you think they will talk about you?   Bar owners talk to other bar owners.    KJs talk to other KJs.     Singers talk to everybody.      Nobody wants to hire someone that they will have to wait and see if you decided to show this week.     How is that a good business decision?  

A steady job, where they never complain about paying you, is worth something.   Travel time is worth something.    Wear and tear is worth something.   Peace of mind is worth something.     I never wonder if my money will be there at the end of the night, at any of my gigs.   Nobody is saying how about taking a cut tonight.     I may offer to give some back if I can plainly see that nobody was there, and they didn't take in enough to pay me.     Just for the working relationship.    This only happens on new jobs.    Every once in a while there will be a circumstance come up where the crowd may not show up because of something happening on TV, in town or weather related.   Not the bar owners fault, but not mine either.    So we will both have to take our medicine and live with not making a full payday.     A very rare event, but it happens.

I didn't say whether it was a good business decision or not.  Obviously there are several factors you should consider, and those factors are going to be different for different people.

Your question was about ethics, not about making business decisions.  Two completely different things, yet you seem to be lumping them together as if they're the same thing.

KUDOS to BD!! I must comment on the TONE of his most recent posts. Much LESS of the BRAVADO and SELF-AGRANDIZING NONSENSE and much MORE of objective, level-headed on-topic discussion.  Far, far more EFFECTIVE and INTERESTING posts.
My hats off to the BD!

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

How did we switch from ethics to business decision??? I thought this thread was relating to "Question of Ethics."  My bad.


Kelly

Dog;

If the offer by the new bar is on a Tues, and lets say that your calender says you are free on that night. Will you take the offer? There is no ethics involed here. You will still have your current gig.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Change a long standing gig for 25 bucks... not just no, but HELL NO

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I serve no man and am loyal to only one God.

Being critical of a person's success in any respect speaks volumes about the lack of your own.

Love as though you've never been hurt, Dance as though no one's watching, Sing as though God Himself were listening.

Jian, he wants me to quit a job to take him.     Same night.   Switch places.   He does Tuesdays.


Ethics and business decisions are very related.    Not sticking with your ethics could cause you to make a bad business decision and it could very much effect your reputation.

All of my Business decisions are made based on my ethics.  And Vs versa.    I don't think they can easily be seperated.

All of my business decisions are based on my reputation and how I will be preceived.

My reputation dictates my business decisions.

Having no/poor ethics can lead to all sorts of bad business decisions.



I'll tell this story.

The place I work now is on Tuesday.    We started that job 3 months after the bar opened.   Over ten years ago.     We had the crowd up to 135 people, every week.    The owner switched hands several times, between family members, for family reasons.     The sister and her husband took over.    After a year or two the husband decided to bring in a DJ/KJ on Thursdays.      This guy didn't like me and wanted a piece of my pie.     I suspect that he talked the husband into a deal for both nights, mine and his.     I also suspect he did it by under cutting my price to get both nights.    (If the husband did it for $25 less, thats $1200 a year he thought he would save.     That $25 a week, cost him 100 people.    At least $25,000 a year.)    When the changeover was completed, things started to happen.    DJ/KJ was not me (he thought he was)  LMAO  and the crowd started to nose dive.    It fell from 135 to 35 in a few months and it stayed like that.     Then he walked out on her.   In the meantime, she divorced the husband because he's a jerk.    She came to her senses and called and asked if I would go back.    I said I would for the same amount I got before.   She was happy to get me.     It took a little over a year to get the crowd built back up.   We average 50-80 now, I don't think we will ever have 135 again.

He (DJ/KJ) had no ethics.    Neither did the husband.     It caused him to make a stupid and very costly, business decision.    The DJ/KJ walked out because he had no ethics and he sucked.   Did he hurt his reputation?   Yeah he sucks, then walks out.

Why did I go back?   She called me because of my reputation/ethics.     Maybe I had something to prove.   Maybe I like a challenge.    Maybe I did it for the money.    Maybe I did it because of my ethics.    It was a business decision.   Steady Tuesady night, 10 minutes away.

The DJ/KJs daughter has been in a few times nosing around.   All she can say to her loser dad.... it is a lot busier than when he killed the place.  

Here is the best part.  DJ/KJ was also a bar owner.   His bar burnt down.   I never heard the cause of the fire.   (I know what you're thinking )    :no:  :O

So he was a stupid bar owner and a stupid KJ, all at once.    Must be a really good feeling to know that you personally cost somebody to lose more than $25,000.    :whistle:

I'll still stick with my original thoughts. If he only offered 25 bucks more, that's an insult more than an incentive. If that happened to me, and I'm not saying that I'm a Karaoke god, but all I would have to do is bring it up at my current show. I'd be like, hey folks, the guy down the street offered me 25 more bucks a night to play at his place. By the time I even finished my sentence, the guys at the bar would have gathered up the money, brought it to the stage, and it would have been 'Shuddup Jimmy and play'..
That's the comfort zone I have at my main gig, so there's no way I would throw that away. Personally having friends like that is more of an incentive to stay than the money.
But then again, if the offer had been a 100 bucks, weeeeellllllll

James the Lion Hearted
Maninblack
White Trash Philosopher

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I serve no man and am loyal to only one God.

Being critical of a person's success in any respect speaks volumes about the lack of your own.

Love as though you've never been hurt, Dance as though no one's watching, Sing as though God Himself were listening.

Keep the present Job.  You are happy there, have the security of  already having been there for some time, and IMO the traveling distance just isn't commensurate with the increase in pay assuming even all else is equal. To me there is also a value in convenience that supersedes a few bucks here and there. Of course familiarity is a type of security as well, and you have both familiarity, and convenience at your current gig. Late at night when I'm tired, even during the day (given a day job) the half hour free from travel, becomes more precious, and that's an hour more per day traveling that as time home, becomes quite valuable; That, coupled with gas prices, etc.  Just not worth making the switch IMO. Look at it this way.. Consider the one hour per day driving too and from the job, one additional hour you are working for him... I wouldn't make the switch.  Not unless your current job appeared tenuous, which it does not. How many nights per week does he want you ?  What type of crowd, bar does he have ?  You might have a tougher time getting a following to travel such a distance assuming they are happy closer to home, etc

Call it business, ethics, etc.  Making such a switch just might not be practical.  What does an hour per day highway driving cost in terms of Gas, how valuable is that time to you to have for your own R&R, etc.  To me,  that additional hour traveling, all things considered is NOT worth it.  You might even be losing more than you gain.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".