Karaoke Forums

Hello All,

    I recently started to use Karafun. Im want to build a library on my harddrive of all my CD+Gs. I tried using my headphone jack out of my computer, with a stero to A/V jack converter, and I piped it into my PMX2000 (behringer) Power mixer. It sounds ok, but not as clear as I would like it. Im assuming I need a good sound card, since Im just using the one build into the motherboard. What are the best sound cards for karaoke into a power mixer out of a computer, and what are the best bang for your dollars?

the good advice I received recently from Keith is this...if you are wanting to record seriously or semi seriously then the m-audio delta 44 is the deal
if you just want good sound to sing to then a creative card audigy or above

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It does not matter if it is a powered mixer or unpowered mixer. Either type is considered a "pro mixer"...

"Pro" means that the device operates at what is called 'pro audio line level'...."Pro audio line level" describes the characteristics of the electronic signals used in pro audio.... Those characteristics are different than the signal levels used in compuer audio and home audio/theater.....

All mixers operate at 'pro line level', even yours....When shopping soundcards, you do not have to worry if it is a powered mixer or nonpowered. A powered mixer simply has the power amp built into the mixer rather than as a separate component....Electronically, they are the same. Both require a pro audio sound card to work properly.

You need not only a different sound card, but you need one that is designed to operate at "pro audio line level" like your mixer.....Do not simply replace your sound card with a more expensive one of the same type, get one designed for pro line level use.

Pro does not mean it has to be expensive, it just means it has meet specific electronic specs to properly interface with your computer and mixer.

Yes, the M-Audio Delta 44 is a perfect match for what you need. If you have an empty PCI slot, just install the supplied drivers and plug it in. Then simply connect the computer to the mixer using regular full size 1/4" TRS patch cables.

Expect to pay $149 for the Delta 44 at any discount etailer like Musiciansfriend.com or others. I doubt you will find it cheaper than that.

In fact, I doubt you will find any card made by anyone that will be exactly what you need and only what you need at a better price. If there is any single item in your whole rack that is as necessary, as simple, as cheap, and as correct for the application, it has to be the Delta 44.

Altho the correct type sound card is necessary for the reasons described above, do not expect the proper sound card to cure all your problems right off the bat.....Your poor sound quality might be a combination of problems associated with the rest of your computer, not just the sound card, but you have to start with the correct card and then eliminate the rest.

Those problems can be easily addressed once you get the right type card and get it patched in correctly......Those additional problems, if you have them, are usually associated with how you have your operating system(Windows) configured or possible driver and/or BIOS conflicts, or simply not enough RAM.

Start with the right card and then see if the problem goes away. If it doesn't, then come back for the easy part.

You particular mixer is capable of providing great sound either live or thru the computer once you iron out the issues I described above. Let's get it interfaced with the right card, then we can move on to the rest.

Please post a description of your computer. Include how much RAM you have installed and how fast the CPU is and what version of Windows is installed....If it is a factory built computer like a Dell, Gateway or HP, then just post the name and model number of the machine plus how much RAM is installed.

The computer info I requested will make it easy for us to help you identify if you need to do some tweeking in addition to the getting the proper sound card installed.

Keith and I have gone round and round on this.

The audigy card mentioned... I run shows with my tracks on computer. Video is of course exported out thru the s-video option on my dual vid card. AUDIO I have coming out my Soundblaster MP3+ Device connected USB.

They say it's not "pro level", but I run professional shows with it, and never had ONE complaint!

It's $40 online!

Guys I appreciate the info, Im all about saving money here, so i may look into both cards!
Anyways I have a sempron 2800, chip w/ ECS board i believe. I built so many computers.... I have 512mb of Ram, and I think I will use my ext 80gb hard drive. I do and will build a athon64 w/ 1 gig of memory eventually.

Any tips w/ computer building would be happily received!

Power supply?

What are the min requirements to run karaoke off computer?

Thanks Keith

Your present rig is fine to run Karaoke providing you limit unneeded background tasks......When doing KJ turn off anti-virus and auto updates and any other unneeded autorun apps that suck up bandwidth and CPU.

Me and Knightshow always battle over soundcards.....We are both right

Knightshow's suggested card does a better job than the one you have, but it is still not the best in that it offers lots less dynamic range and gain to work with.

Please imagine a series of glass windows like you have in your house......Line them up one after the other in a fashion where you can look thru all of them......Then pretend you got all these windows lined up like standing dominoes and you are looking thru them.

Select just one window in the series and shrink it smaller in size.....Squeeze it down........That one windows is now the choke point of all the light passing thru all the windows......No matter how large the rest are, that one window limits the height and width of what you can see thru all of them.

In audio, that smaller window would be what limits your dynamic range....It would limit and define the extent of your whole system and be the choke point in the total system's dynamic range.

Google up keywords 'music dynamic range' to gain an understanding of why you don't want it limited and choked down...you want those windows as tall and as wide as possible, or at least all of them the same size as the other so that no one window limits the others ablitly to pass light.

Your mixer is a window. Your computer is a window. your player is a window. Your soundcard is one too.

If you want a small window mixed in with the rest that defines the limits of your system rather than your complete system defining those limits, then buy the 40 buck soundblaster card.

Just remember which window it is when you finally decide that 'better' is not best....Then swap it out for a full view and see what you were missing.

OK, I just described what dynamic range looks like.....Now I will tell you what it sounds like...............

For a great comparision of how increased dynamic range sounds, compare FM radio to a live stage band playing the same song....Which one sounds more 'alive' and real?...Which one makes you feel like you are there in front of the stage?

Pro audio gear is designed to offer much more dynamic range than all home/consumer/soundblaster gear....It is designed for 'live' performances, not radio.

FM vs Live is the difference you will hear with the Delta 44 or comparable pro card when compared to even the best soundblaster played thru a pro mixer and pro speakers.

Go to a real no-chit music store and have them audition both before you buy.

If the soundblaster will meet your needs and buget, then buy it and treat yourself to dinner for two with what you saved.

Just make sure to enjoy that dinner, cause it's a one time savings....Everytime you powerup your system after that discount meal, you will hunger for what you could have had if you had paid full price just once.

GOt mine for $17 on ebay (refurbished).  Bought 3 of em.  I too use them in a "professional" environment, and it was a majior improvment over the built in sound cards.  ANd never had any complaints about my sound.  

OOPS....Have had complaints FROM MY COMPETION!!!!!    :dancin:  :dancin:  :dancin:

I used Maya 44 primarily for one reason, four distinct channels of audio for professional use. I also do DJ in addition to Karaoke. For karaoke, you only really need two channels, left and right, whether in stereo or mono. For DJ, music queue requireds you to have 4 channel so you can fade from one set to another. Maya has two separate hardware to deal with this and that's why most are using them for laptop based DJ application. I used to SB audigy card and just sold it on ebay and got the Maya.

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Seize the day and SING!!!

Had a Soundblaster (think it was a Live - cost $100)- it sounded very good, DRAMATIC improvement over the stock card.  Recently borrowed an E-MU 0404 (not even real thrilled about this card) & the difference was night & day & I thought the SB card sounded good.  The difference between the E-MU & the SB was just like the SB vs stock.  Now I am looking into some other pro-grade cards & dropping the SB altogether.  I am very interested in the ESI Julia card.  
http://www.esi-pro.com/viewProduct.php?pid=43&page=2
It has the choice of using balanced 1/4" in's/out's or unbalanced RCA in's/out's as well.

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labor day I put a laptop into  a good sound system with the head phones out and blew away 2 bands and blew them away with the current ac97codecs I dont know what your problem is I have a system here withn a delta 44 sound card I can inject laptop out Griffin Imac usb out and withj my system I defy you to tell me the difference.I have been running computer sound for 5 or 6 years and it is not a major operation digital is better than analagous And I have never seen a major argument about a few tenths of a volt between audio levels For less than $2 I will amplify the amateur level to pro level  but I always thought it weas the the preamp in  the mixer to compensate for the different input levels .. You know what Im tired of this bsss Im gone..

As an after thought i got an associites degree in computer I/O I didnt realize it was that complicated  Google DAC digital to to analoguge Its not a rocket science,....I have put togetehher Daws for 6 years and all of a sudden  you are an expert... Keith get off yoiur F*** hgh horse and listenn to thre ones that set up daws about 6 years ago...

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I for one, appreciate all the dialog on the tech side of things. Keith and Lonnie DO make me think about stuff...

I HATE SB cards... so I almost didn't try the MP3+ device.

To be honest, I've never tried anything else since, as these work just perfectly for my needs. So I've never said that keith was wrong;  I just argued when he said that SB stuff wouldn't work well with what we do audiowise with computers.

THAT, is a very nice card Lonman.

It has all the features you will need in Pro Audio plus all you will ever need for home audio....It will satisfy both....Please notice the huge dynamic range it offers over even the best soundblaster.....114dB!

Their Maya44 will also work for you but doesn't have the home audio features.

Yeah i'm pretty sure that is going to be my card of choice (Juli@), it $129 - 29 over what I paid for the SB card.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Knightshow, your card is an excellent choice for a laptop.....It really is.

But if you are using a full size PC just for KJ, then select one better suited for it...If however, you want to play games and do other stuff with your PC, then go with the soundblaster or Lonman's choice that will do both.

Keith, I hear ya, and it's nice to know that there are other options available.

I'm doing a special party on the 24th... a guy that's really into sound will be helping me run it. I'll tell him about your card if he's got any complaints about my sound. So far, he's not said anything!

The human ear is a funny device......No, I ain't saying you got funny lookin ears!

What I'm trying to say is they will fool us.

When you audition a piece of sound equipment it might sound fine........It will seem like you hear everything perfectly......but until you compare it directly with another ....at the same audition.....first one then the other....switching back and forth between the two...Untill you do that with any piece of audio gear, you will not be able to tell the difference....and the difference will sometimes be dramatic.

It's the same with soundcards. They will fool your ear unless you can do a direct A/B comparison.....Then, it's like using your eyes to compare the picture quality of two TV's on display.

If you can't compare various sound cards like you can TV's, then just see what the pro audio studios use.....Or ask the guys who sell DAWS like Sweetwater what TYPE card they use.....Not brand, but TYPE.

You will discover that all pro studios and DAW builders use a pro line level TYPE of card. They do that because it will properly interface with the rest of their rack gear electronically.......You can believe if soundblaster TYPE cards would do the job, then there would be no market for pro level audio TYPE cards.

We already have it hard trying to ADAPT pro level stage equipment to DJ/KJ use....Let's face it, we are forced to use home/consumer level disc players......And then we have to interface them to pro level mixers......And we can't use home/consumer level amps and speakers cause we know they will not live long or sound as good as stage equipment....So we are used to adapting improper gear already cause we have no choice, but we also already know to use pro whenever possible.

When it comes to soundcards, we do have a choice....We are not forced to use home/consumer level soundcards because they do make them especially for pro gear.

I'll tell you something you may not know........Believe it or not there is a huge difference in sound quality between a pro level CD player and the ones we all use in karaoke....We have no choice because they only make CDG players in home/consume grade.....They are home/consumer level on their outputs so we have to patch them into our mixer via RCA jacks and then shoot them into a mixer designed to handle only +4 dB level signals.......Yeah, it seems to sound ok, but that's because you have never heard the difference.

So ok, they don't make a pro level CDG player, BUT when your computer hardrive IS your player and they DO make pro level soundcards, then it's a no-brainer which to chose!

The nice thing about useing a computer to play your songs is you can now remove that one last consumer grade device from your system.......the soundcard.

I suggest that whenever you can select pro level gear that you do so......

now that's a HE!!uva arguement Keith!

Once the gig money starts coming in, I'll get a delta card... and compare it.

Got a plate of crow handy?

You are not the real Knightshow.....where is he?....What did you do with the real Knightshow!  LMAO

Seriously,.....Also check out the Maya 44 by ESI....it has some really great specs and is about 30 bucks cheaper than the Delta 44.