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I have good reasons to worry about him.............

There are very few folks who work in my profession......He is one of them.

He is one of just six others I know and have worked with who do what we do for a living in this whole area of the state.....Two of those 6 died in the last few years.....They died as a result of stupidity.

Divorce and marital discord.........They died fighting divorce.

One hung himself in jail after he discovered his wife of 20 years was leaving him for someone else and blew up in their home and was arrested for it.

The other guy blew her brains out and then his own over the same thing.

This guy I'm worried about now was just locked up because he completely destroyed their house inside and attacked her and their 3 small kids while drunk and raging last night because she wants a divorce too.

He was released this AM on bond.............I guess we will see happens next.

2 out of 6 are terrible odds. I don't want to lose another friend and co-worker to something so survivable as divorce.

She showed up last night at my door.....She was beaten and bruised and crying....she had the kids in the car..she was headed out of town to her mothers.

We are not social outside of work, so I was shocked to see her at my door, and especially shocked to see her looking so distraught......She blurted out that he had beat her and the kids and had burned all their birthcerts and photos and papers and destroyed everything in the house and he was out in the back yard totally freaked when she left.....She only stopped by to tell me he(get this) that he probably wouldn't be in to work that evening.................!

Then she says I bet he kills himself tonight.............

So I grabbed her and shook her.............I told her to go straight to the sheriffs substation down the road and tell them what she had just told me.

She did.

They took one look at her beaten face and the pitiful kids and locked him up thirty minutes later.

Now he's out and she doesn't know where he is. He missed work last night (terminal offence) and he hasn't called work yet.....I worked his shift and so far the boss is covering for him. Boss just called to tell me if he didn't hear from him in two hours, he has to turn him in AWOL and start paperwork to terminate him....65K/yr down the drain.....Marriage down the drain....Certain conviction for 4 counts domestic violence and agrevated battery to face......

Yeah, I'm afraid I might lose another friend and co-worker any minute to Stupid Stuff.

I'll keep you posted.

I simply cannot believed they just turned him lose without ordering a quick 3 day mental evaluation.....That is all they had to do, and they can do it automatically by law based on the offences he is charged with......It might have prevented what might happen.

Honestly, it sounds like you may need to keep better company...this sounds like someone that I would never call a friend...

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C Mc
KJ, FL

Don't be so quick to judge.

I know him only thru work last 5 years.........We work hours together sometimes sharing intense work problems and solutions, but I never knew he had problems at home...We ARE friends-I look forward to seeing him at work because we share the same deep work interests and he and I work so well together. I know him to be considerate, understanding and easy to work with, so he is capable of being like that to his family too.

He is my friend...If he would only show up at my door right now I would help get him thru this and he would maybe learn to accept the divorce and at least be around for his kids and have the chance to learn to cope and be a better person.

It's one ship, one crew.......no matter how big the problem, not matter how bad it seems, you don't abandon each other and declare 'every man for himself'.....

I spent 20 years on submarines.....I know men like you know the back of your hand....Now that I know what he's facing, I can stop him long enough to make him think.

I don't want to bury him.

sorry Keith but I am with Topher. YOu almost make it sound like its the womens fault their husbands (your friends) didnt survive their marital probs yet it appears that it was a universally accepted thing that they all roughed up their wives. That sir makes me wonder if you are tarred with the same brush

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Stop it!

I am tarred with nothing except worry for all of them.

Those idiots let him out and placed them all at risk.......He, his wife and his kids are now all at risk.

Don't you forget I insisted she go to the sheriff...I just can't believe they let him out after just a few hours.

NZ police rarely keep men for longer than overnite for domestic violence because 99% of the time they go thru the paperwork when a woman complains only to find she takes him back the moment he says he's sorry. Its kind of sad that many women worldwide think they cant function without a man even an arrogant violent pig of a man.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Keith,


   You should move to Ct.  Many are held on 72 hour watches for tragedies.  Just last week alone, two golfers shot over 80 at the local country club.  They had to arrest the whole foursome.  One of the golfers might not be able to rehabituate into a domestic situation ever again !   He's having a tough time living with himself. Damn sandtraps and water holes !


OK,  Now MY take on this Keith.  Try to keep your involvement with BOTH sides of a domestic insanity situation to an ABSOLUTE bare minimum. These are very sick situations for some with (as you well know) potentially violent outcomes.  Accept that YOU have little control over others sicknesses, relationships, and when possible unless you are VERY good friends with BOTH SPOUSES..  Don't take on both sides. She came to your home, you didn't know her well... Why doesn't she have OTHER support mechanisms ?  Why you ?  Don't get manipulated into the third wheel of a sick rollercoaster ride Keith...  

Remember

Grant me the ability to accept things I have no control of
Grant me the ability to change the things I HAVE control of

and the toughie..

The wisdom to know the difference...

(What this means in many cases of course, is KNOW how involved NOT to get in certain situations, when and what you must stay away from, and sometimes for some of we males, it's crucial not to let the "White Knight" part of us get involved with extending too much assistance to the female EVEN THOUGH we know the male (our friend) is temporarily insane and binging.

Don't pick up the onus of where you feel the police failed !  Some situations are just TOO big and risky !    Remember, YOU TOO might get shot when involved in a triad that you could've avoided... Triad NOT meaning affair in this case of course Keith, but if he's temporarily sick,  he might go off on you too !    

Be careful.    You can only do "so much".  Adults get themselves into situations, and consequently have the responsibility to deal with the facets of them, and in over 50% of the cases, this means marriage that fails in time !   This isn't your son, or daughter... Keep a safe distance emotionally !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Keith, is this some kind of a high stress job that demands a lot of these guys?  Are they dedicated to their jobs so much that they're completely out of touch with their own families -- then when the wives want out the guys just snap?  I mean what the hell is going on there?

She called an hour ago and we talked for 30 minutes........She went on an on about how hard she tried and tried over the years.....I stopped her.

Told her I didn't want to hear about how HARD she tried to give to him.

I explained that I understood that we Humans first give what we want back...I wanted to hear her demanding it back....to stop being a victim and start demanding instead.  Stop giving.....Stop complaining.....Stop....Stop telling me what she needed back from him...Tell him, not me........Demand it.....And she says that whenever she tried to insist, he would go nuts and threaten them all.

I insisted she stop giving what she didn't get back and stop complaining to everyone that he didn't give it back.....

I don't wanna hear her drama and how badly he treated her......Drone n drone n drone....Whine n whine n whine.....

I want to see her draw a broad dark line and defend it with her life, then I will respect her.

If she does do that I will grab his face and make him see that line....Look at it....see it.....accept it...then decide if he will meet her demands or move on.

She had him locked up.....Then she failed to even try to convince them to keep him locked up....She did not draw the line and show them she would defend that line.....So they let him go......Now she is calling.

not being fair to keith.  you people are too judgmental.  many people have many problems.  many people you love, are friends with and work with have major problems you don't know about, and probably will nver know about.  I just found ou my brother and his wife are majo credit card junkies and owe 45 thousand dollars.  it had been going on for years.  other bad things have happened to me and friends that I will not apologize for, and after the way you've treated keith, probably wouldn't ask for sympathy here.  it just happens in this case that the problms (suicide and wife beating) were of the type that are not easy to hide when they get real bad.  we all have problems some worse, some not.  if you think you are immune just wait a few years and then we will see who is judging you.

besides, the man said they weren't social after work, and I didn't see him defending wife beaters at any time.  honestly, am I reading the same posts as the rest of you or does someone have an ax to grind?  maybe you all know keith better than me and  that is where the difference is..

Nope....no stress.....In our job you are free to offer or devote nothing or all.....I liked him cause he n me could get into it....(the job)

I'm thinking he used the job to escape his reality......I used it as exercise...I was flexing to stay in shape....He was hiding there.

Steven, that is exellent advise. you are a very seasoned survivor.

I am careful in these matters.

Noboby dumps their crap on me and then blames me....I don't allow that.....I try not to takes sides, I just point out their weaknesses and where they might suffer a fatal blow.

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

Look, this is the bottom line......I don't want to bury another person I know from work who can't cope with life.

It will make me feel responsible....like I failed to see it AGAIN.

I work with a small group of guys and they keep dying and doing really stupid stuff....And I don't see it in time.

Sometimes I feel like it's my fault because I didn't notice......They are my friends

In Canada, the offending party is automatically arrested, charged, and held until appearing before a judge at which time the offender may be placed in remand until trial (jailed), ordered to undergo psychiatric assessment, or a restraint order.  If the offender owns any weapons, they will be confiscated.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

As an old man from the old old school let me explain to you youngins what being a Man and Gentleman is all about. Up until the time I was 4or 5 I was reared by my grandpa on my mothers side MacRae…  When I was 4 years old it was religion to me you don’t break horses you train them. Never ever lay a whip or spur on any animal…Your stock comes first after your woman. Your woman is the head of the household and anybody that disrespects her or even sits at her table with his hat on goes out behind the barn..If you are in her house and she says jump you better jump son…..Nobody abused my mom or sisters because they knew better and I didn’t need the cops or sheriff… I was married ot the best little gal that ever walked We are divorced now but still friends and if any “man” abused her I would kick his asss…I have no respect for any punk that abuses his family in any way and I will not tolerate it. I have been in court and there hasn’t been a judge that penalized my behavior in any way when I did kick assss…

In my younger years I trained a few horses and never abused them in any way I developed self discipline I took care of many farm animals and had a bond with them that most will never know. And this included the biggest holstien bulls and arab studs..

In the military I sometimes had brig duty.. The marines in taking prisoners to chow would make them stop at every hatch and make them scream Sir Request Permission To Go Through The Hatch Sir…I was taking a prisoner to chow one day and a marine officer stopped me and said I wasn’t following the correct procedure and I would be put on report…I came unglued and put him against the bulkhead and said Sir if you want to abuse this prisoner then you take him to chow. In the meantime put me on report Don’t give me no (@$%&#!)…And the next time I see a marine make a prisoner run in circles on the fantail in the hot sun until he passes our I will kick his assss.. Like wuss he went running into the chow hall and started popping off to the OOD The OOd calmly looked at him and said that is Snuff Don’t F** with him son…

I have been in the most intensive situations ever imagined and managed to keep a cool head …But Ill tell you what I know what a Woman is and I k now what a Man is and it doesn’t come from laws or all the liberal BSS  It came from my father and his father and generations of breeding a Gentleman.

Now son if you want to disagree that is your prerogative but as old as I am I will put you against the wall and show you what being a man is all about..So when I hear these stories I wonder if it is a punk that didn’t have a real father like we used to have…

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 :worship:  :worship:  :worship:  :worship: Karyoker
I just buried one of life's true gentlemen. Nice to know there are some still alive and kicking and prepared to stand up for traditional values in the face of political correctness

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

I used to co-lead men's group as a volunteer, basically a therapy group for men who batter have a choice of going to jail or go to this therapy session for 10 weeks and they avoid jail. Half of them don't even care that they are there, just want to finish up so they can go back to their old lives. I also used to volunteer for battered women's shelter and one question I always get asked is "as a man, why do they do that?"

Knowing from both sides, the behavior you have described Keith is the why the circle of violence will go on. Neither see their bahavior as a problem so it perpetuates and it gets passed on to their kids, who learn from the parent's bahavior that it's ok to behave that way. It's a very difficult cycle to break. I hope that both your friend and his wife learns that their learned behavior needs to be relearned. He needs to separate anger from violence, that is the primary reason why this happens. The men do not know how to separate anger from violence since that's all they know from growing up.

Women needs to take part as well. What most of the dependent women want is the sweetness of make up. What they will tolerate for their men to tell them that they are sorry is unbelievable. They need to understand that those kind of behavior is not health, they need to find their needs from something other.

I know this is a bunch of psychobabble crap but I know from my experience it's not easy to to "fix", needs a lot of relearning of behavior.

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Seize the day and SING!!!

In the USA the national statisics are that it takes an abused person a minimum of leaving 3 times before they actually will leave a person that is abusive.  It is not always their chioce as many people who are abusers often brainwash their victims that they are nothing without them.  

October is National Domestice Violence Month.  I think everyone should take some time and go visit a program for domestic abuse victims.  This is not something that just has women and children victims it is also men.


Keith, I think it is commendable that you told her to go straight to the sherrifs station.  Many people would have just looked the other way or even blamed her on the spot.  Thank you!!!  ANd I think you have every right to worry about the whole family.  They are all in very real danger at this point.  I hope that they are all able to get some help through this.  Perhaps if she calls again you should refer her to a local agency for Domestic Violence.  They will help the entire family, including him.  They are pros at keeping people safe from themselves and each other.

I'll be thinking about you Keith.  Keep us posted.

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Will sing or fish for food!!I'm not quite right!!

NOBODY Gets To Your SOUL ....Like A WOMAN!

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Man Must Know His Limitations -Clint Eastwood