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MorganLeFey
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 Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:42 am |
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First time in a long time I have had feed back and I just couldnt eq properly. If anyone has any suggestions I might try I would be grateful. The gig was upstairs in a really old lime-stone building with bare stone walls, bare wooden floors and wooden ceiling. The stage was hard against a stone wall. I turned the efx down I turned our mics down, I turned the tops and mids on our voices down. The worst thing was it was a low feedback not the normal high screech one normally associates with feedback, just a low continuous rumble that would build to a cresendo. It made what should have been a fun night a bit of a nightmare for me. Husband was fine cos he was partying with the guests but I was trying to retain the integrity of our sound...I guess it didnt help that it was only me and the ones with hearing aids that were still sober
Thanks in advance anyone who replies. If I dont respond it will be cos I am in bed, its nearly 4am here
_________________ "Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."
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Guest
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Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:46 am |
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Sounds like a harmonic distortion or it was electrical in nature .... Lon may know the specifics ... probably have to wait on him to wake up.
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MorganLeFey
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Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:48 am |
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Thanks for responding so promptly I appreciate it. I felt like a total novice and I have been mixing my own sound for 7 years.
_________________ "Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."
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karyoker
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Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:09 am |
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If the mics are close to a hard wall you get feedback Either move the singers out or hang a curtain or soft material on the wall...
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MorganLeFey
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Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:14 am |
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only singers were me and the other half. I kinda figured it was the wall but nothing seemed to work
_________________ "Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."
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knightshow
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Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 9:44 am |
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you might try turning the speakers TO the wall, and let the sound bounce off them... with nothing to absorb the harmonics, you're going to get feedback if the sound is punching straight through the room...
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Lonman
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Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:16 am |
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Where were your speakers in relation to the mics. I would also suggest hanging a curtain behind the singer on the stone wall with a 3-5" space behind it.
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MorganLeFey
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Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 4:13 pm |
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ok here is a bit of a diagram, sorry have just woken up. Thanks Lonnie for your interest
_________________ "Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."
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karyoker
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Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:55 pm |
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The common theme here is to apply all acoustics to their small bar parameters.. They want to install a pa system in a basement and if they walked into a big lounge they wouldnt have a clue A totally stone environment such as an unfineshed basement is awesome with concrete walls.. It doesnt take power but it does take a little knowledge of acoustics It is not a rocket science although theren are some on here that over complicate it. A hard wall enclosed space is awesome if you know how to seup...
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MorganLeFey
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Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 9:12 pm |
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errrrr is this not my point? I obviously dont otherwise I wouldnt have posted. This was a one off private function (60th b/day) in a superb quaint historic building. So hanging a curtain wasnt an option as I hadnt been there b4 and there was no chance of seeing the building or setting up early as it was in the next town an hours drive away. I loved the place but I couldnt relax and enjoy cos I wasnt delivering. When my sound isnt right neither is my voice.
short of carrying a curtain around with me full time is there anything else I could have done
_________________ "Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."
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maninblack
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:55 am |
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Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:22 am
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Were you're speakers on stands? If so, you have to deal with your sound carrying up and bouncing back to you from the walls and ceiling. Also you have the structural vibrations from being on a wooden floor which would cause your stands to also vibrate from the sound. Example, you can make a guitar feedback without ever having to touch the strings if the volume is loud enough. Strike the guitar on the body, which will cause the strings to vibrate, once the frequency sets in, it will continue to gain in momentum, which basically means that once the vibration starts, it in fact loops back on itself, causing it to sustain and increase. It will normally start with a low end sound and build itself up to higher frequencies the longer it sustains.
If the speakers were on the floor, keep in mind, if the building is as you described on the lower floors as well, the room below basically acted as one huge bass bin. Any sound vibrations would reverberate through the floors.
Just a thought.
James
Maninblack
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Lonman
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 1:28 am |
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I would probably move the speakers further away from the stage if possible. The speaker pointing out at the angle would be my first guess as the culprit. Since it's a low end feedback, you are likely getting the non-directional bass frequencies that are projecting from the back. Move it further away if possible, push the other one a little more forward. I would put the monitor speakers more in front of the singer area aiming toward the back of the stage & not so much on the side. If you have an eq, turn the 125hz & 250 hz down a bit (these are 'generally' low frequency feedback problems).
Not knowing the rest of the room & just seeing the diagram, these would be my first suggestions.
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MorganLeFey
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 1:33 am |
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maninblack @ Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:55 pm wrote: Were you're speakers on stands? If so, you have to deal with your sound carrying up and bouncing back to you from the walls and ceiling. Also you have the structural vibrations from being on a wooden floor which would cause your stands to also vibrate from the sound. Example, you can make a guitar feedback without ever having to touch the strings if the volume is loud enough. Strike the guitar on the body, which will cause the strings to vibrate, once the frequency sets in, it will continue to gain in momentum, which basically means that once the vibration starts, it in fact loops back on itself, causing it to sustain and increase. It will normally start with a low end sound and build itself up to higher frequencies the longer it sustains.
If the speakers were on the floor, keep in mind, if the building is as you described on the lower floors as well, the room below basically acted as one huge bass bin. Any sound vibrations would reverberate through the floors.
Just a thought.
James
Thank you James
Maninblack _________________ "Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."
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MorganLeFey
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 1:35 am |
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Lonman @ Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:28 pm wrote: I would probably move the speakers further away from the stage if possible. The speaker pointing out at the angle would be my first guess as the culprit. Since it's a low end feedback, you are likely getting the non-directional bass frequencies that are projecting from the back. Move it further away if possible, push the other one a little more forward. I would put the monitor speakers more in front of the singer area aiming toward the back of the stage & not so much on the side. If you have an eq, turn the 125hz & 250 hz down a bit (these are 'generally' low frequency feedback problems).
Not knowing the rest of the room & just seeing the diagram, these would be my first suggestions.
Pushing forward wasnt an option because of people dancing but everything you say makes sense. I had the foldback to the side because of the proximity to the stone wall. I dont have a seperate eq just the 3 knobs on my mixer for tops mids and bass per channel. I tried winding everything back at one time or other thru the nite till I got totally confused.  _________________ "Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."
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Lonman
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 1:38 am |
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Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 3:57 pm
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MorganLeFey @ Sun Sep 17, 2006 1:35 am wrote: Pushing forward wasnt an option because of people dancing but everything you say makes sense. I had the foldback to the side because of the proximity to the stone wall. I dont have a seperate eq just the 3 knobs on my mixer for tops mids and bass per channel. I tried winding everything back at one time or other thru the nite till I got totally confused. This is one of the example on where a good 31 band eq can come into play for feedback control. Take a look at the dbx 231, you can find them on ebay fairly reasonable. _________________ LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!
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MorganLeFey
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 1:39 am |
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actually there is a rack mountable machine at work doing nothing that I might suggest to the boss he let me have. If I bat my eyelashes he might just say yes
_________________ "Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."
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