Karaoke Forums

There was karaoke at the bar I work in now, before I got there.
When that KJ retired some of his following left. He would buy everyone
drinks in the bar all night long. He even told me the money he makes
doing karaoke he spends back into the bar every night. He would work
sometimes 2 hours later than he was paid. Basically working for free for 2 hours.
He had a poor system that he never upgraded and songs that were 10 yrs behind the times. In fact he told me he bought his speakers 20 yrs ago off the back end of a truck for $25. The bar gave him his drinks for free and he partied all night getting drunk. To be fair this is a great guy anyone would be fortunate to have as their friend.

Now along comes me. I don't drink and don't buy patrons drinks. I use the money
to pay the bills. I can't afford to work for free. I quit on time. If I'm not being paid I'm out of there. I have a full time job to get to in the morning. You can imagine
how this made me look. A lot of the regulars left because it was no longer free drinks for them and free services until the bar closed. Some stuck it out for a while, but as I built a big crowd (took about a year) they got frustrated that they couldn't sing as much.  Now I came in with up to date song books and good equipment.
I built a good crowd from this. I get paid to stay later because they don't want the crowd to leave and I have a tip jar. My crowd is completely different from what I started with and the owner is thrilled with the increased business.

I wrote this because you were talking about regulars. Regulars are what you make them. It depends on what type of regulars you want. Mine like mainly karaoke and a
good sound system. If you have a bar that your regulars want dance sets and to sing karaoke that is what your regulars will be. I think the die hard karaoke people will want just karaoke, but there is a group of people who look at karaoke not as seriously. Or  the groups of people who are trying to accommodate everyone in the group, some like it and some don't, so they settle for a DJ/KJ kind of bar.

Most of us here are die hard karaoke people, so I understand the gear towards not
understanding playing DJ music. But I do believe it has its place.

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well said Babs!!

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C Mc
KJ, FL

I actually know a way to help the process along.   But it is just an idea.  Never been tested, but I think it will work.    I won't put it here, lest people think rotton of me.


Most hacks dethrone themselves.   Given enough rope they hang themselves.   After they take so many pay cuts just to get work, it doesn't pay them enough, to work.    Seen it happen lots of times.    

You start out with a little (Too Small) investment and think that you can make big money... NOPE it doesn't work that way.   All you did was waste your money on a job that you thought was so easy.   That you could put your competition out of business.    You never had competition, because you are not competition.   You have nothing close enough to compete with.    

Unless your goal is to play for little money, in dive bars, for screaming drunks, on a crappy system.   Then I guess you win.

There are two ways to go into any business.  The right way and the wrong way.    If you think you can underfund your way to the top.  You lose.    If you think it takes money, to make money you have a chance.     You don't buy a junk yard car to run at Nascar.    You don't buy a junk system to build a quality, money making, lasting karaoke business.

One of my regular singers is learning this lesson, as we speak.    Just bought out a junk company.  Why do you think it was for sale?   It was junk when they had it and couldn't get enough jobs.   Everyone complains about the lousy sound.    Because they now own it, they "think" it sounds great.     Will have to work for food.    I expect them to be out of my hair in 6 months, if it takes that long.     Just because you are a good singer, doesn't mean you're a good KJ, with a crappy system.

Years ago I had a regular singer tell me they were going into the karaoke business.   Their total investment in system and all was $1200.    The price of two of my microphones.     This, in your wildest dreams can not and will never, be someone that could be my competition.    They later, after a few jobs  admitted to me that they needed to spend more money upgrading.    They no longer do karaoke.   Wonder why?

I have another KJ competitor that can not figure out, that he is the reason he can't work regularly.   He's a jerk.  He acts like a jerk.   He messes with the way people sound, making them sound bad.  Absolutely can not sing.    Sounds horrible, at best.   Crying "What am I doing wrong?"     I know exactly why?     YOU'RE A JERK.   NOBODY wants to hire a jerk.   You chase people away.   Keep up the good work, I'll wave at you in the karaoke grave yard for fallen, wannabe KJ jerks.

The cream always rises to the top.  

I've been singing karaoke at many bars around Austin area for certainly at least nearly 10 years, and I have NEVER seen a bar where you sang from the table. That option is just not done here. I certainly wouldn't like it either.

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The Truth Is Out There

Not my preference either, but it works for him!

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It works for Jian too. Wait a minute, howe much does Jian pay for his mics, hmm.

I've seen it done that way in Hawaii and it was a refreshing chage of pace. I do prefer to do it on a stage though in front of everybody.

Not sure what to think of the KJ/DJ combo that TopherM does in St Petersburg, FL. Usually in Austin that doesn't work at all. Austin has tons of dance clubs. If people want to dance they can find lots of specialized interesting clubs for dancing.

The Common Interest, before it caught fire and was rebuilt used to do some dance tunes intermittently during the night. It was popular, and a lot of karaoke people and other regulars in the bar would dance. However they really minimized the amount of this. I admit it would drive me a bit crazy because I was there to sing and not dance, but apparently that is not true of all the patrons. I guess I've answered my own thought here as it does sound like what TopherM claims is indeed possible if done right in the correct venue with the right group of people.

Note that Common Interest has now been rebuilt bigger than ever and full of LCD displays - nice looking bar. Not sure what happened to the crowds and regulars. The KJ's there are inept and don't even know how to play discs you bring in hardly. The sound system sucks compared to previously, and they have their entire large staff sing in rotation. They still play dance music in blocks of sometimes 30 minutes now. Drives me crazy. As Jeff mentioned, no one will dance there now hardly.

IMO it appears they need to ramp back up. They need to improve the sound, know how to KJ well, and not overdo the dance breaks unless they have the dance crowd there and people are restless. They should also give the staff singing a break for awhile until they really rebuild their base. I think the base and basics are karaoke as they are an exclusive karaoke club (card playing in back) - oh, come to think of it they have a new side now that also has pool. I hope they improve because I like singing there ok - or at least I used to. You really felt like you were on a meaningful stage there in the past as they had very experienced cliental and many good high quality singers and regulars. When they had a contest, well I was going to say it was a contest, but I just remembered the person that usually one was usually the most flamboyant and not by any means the best singer. Personally I think those that win karaoke or singing contests should win based on their ability to sing, not their ability to make hams of themselves. The other reason I like going there is because Austin has passed a non smoking ardanence and I much prefer to be in a clean air environment if I am there for hours to sing. Recent years have given me asthma and it is much worse when I spend time in smokey bars.

I wonder if you could go the other route, and mix in more of what TopherM is doing. Say...take a pretty decent dance club - possibly somewhat darker inside with lights etc, but somehow mix in karaoke?... Hmm...Just remembered Polly Esthers used to be like that they had a multi-level dance area with upstairs area and a basement. Outside on the patio is where they had karaoke. It lasted a while, but then died - not sure why. Guess I really meant having it inside along with the standard dance floor. I'm thinking though that those that sing would most likely have to sing more modern and fast paced stuff regularly so folks could dance and would want to. Otherwise it would go south.

Other thoughts?

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The Truth Is Out There

Energy and entertainment. A lot of clubs offer karaoke as the only entertainment on some or all nights.

Topher for example, is able to entertain in different ways to keep the crown interested. I would like to see his show but would never have plans to emulate it. That takes a lot of coordination, skill, and talent to do.

There are not that many, made for live entertainment bars around.  Unless they just built it new.  With the sole intention of having a stage for live entertainment.    When I walk in to check out a new bar to do karaoke and I see a stage, I cringe.     Just not the way I will ever do, my style of karaoke.      Most bars don't even have enough room to have a dance floor and tables and chairs.     It's usually one or the other.    Gotta work with what you get.    Most of the time that means an unconventional set up.     Speakers on different ends of the room, etc.    Not the best way, but the only way.

Has any bar owner tried to demand that you do your show on a stage? I'd like to know what you said if they did.

We used to do the Duke of Windsor where the graphics were displayed on a 20 foot projection on the wall to the left of the stage and the video of the singer was on the right of the stage. Kodak would have parties there with 200-300 people but the ones I liked was the bachleorette parties...We would set up halfwaqy down the dance floor and pipe in to the house sound system.  


I might be doing a bar that is hardly bigger than that dance floor but by using a snake I can set the singers in a corner and setup on the other end  It is a whole lot easier to setup where you have roomm......

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One of the biggest dance clubs down here used to karaoke on Sundays when it isn't football season (they have a whole all you can drink and eat thing for football games).

I went a few times to check it out. As you can imagine, they have an absolutely superior sound system and a great stage. This place has gone down hill a bit in the past few years, but 5-10 years ago this is the kinda club where you could catch nationally touring hip hop acts about once a month. I saw Coolio there a while back and had a friggin blast. So you are basically singing with many of the same components that they would use for these shows. Two array systems flying on each side of the stage and about 12 18" subs that were actually installed under the stage.

Just based on my experience, they obviously didn't fire up the entire system for karaoke, but they did utilize it. I assume maybe one section of High/Mid from each side of the array and 2 of the 12 subs. Either way, it sounded great AND being on the professional stage above a big dance floor was great.

UNFORTUNATELY, and I think alot of this has to do with the show being on Sunday, there were never more than about 20-30 people there with about 6-10 singers, and it was pretty boring. This place holds about 600 for their Friday and Saturday dance nights, and there was just something about it being so empty that sucked the energy out of that small karaoke night. As far as I know, they don't do karaoke anymore.

On a side note, even though this was a dance club, the guy that ran the karaoke there didn't really focus on filler music either. He had a filler track that he faded in at a very low volume while the next singer came up, but that was about it. I wasn't a KJ at that time, so I wasn't geeky about the equipment like I am now, but looking back on it, that place would have so much potential on a different night.

Of course, the other side of it is that any karaoke show in that place is almost dwarfed by the scope of the club/stage/speaker setup, etc., so I'm not even sure it was a good idea in the first place!!

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C Mc
KJ, FL

Many of the bars around here have stages & place for live music, the ones that don't are the smaller clubs & dive type bars that couldn't fit one.  Dance floor not always.  I have never set my equipment directly up on the stage, ideally I would set up out in front with a snake run - but often would be off to the side, still not directly on.  Around here, singing from the table is very uncommon - not just at my shows, but the majority.  Not to say a  sing from the table show wouldn't work here, but the ones that are doing it now are considered low class/dive type shows.

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The only thing I have ever put on a stage was my 100" projection screen.    Singing was always done from the floor.

I tell them I want to be on the singers level.  I don't want to appear unapproachable or like I'm above everyone, pyschologically speaking.   All based on getting more audience participation.   That's why no stage and I use the cordless mikes.   So that singing can take place where the singers feel most comfortable.   At or near the table or friends or they can go to any spot in the entire bar, they chose.

The stage works as kind of a barrier for me. I need to be able to do my job
without fending off people. It is just enough deterant to keep people who don't have a question about karaoke away. My problem is I think I'm to approachable.  LMAO

When it gets crazy busy they will line up at the stage to ask questions or hand in slips. This is nice because I can set the singers vocals than turn around and help everyone. One of my pet peaves is when I am setting the mixer and someone
demands my attention by tapping on my shoulder. I usually just hold up a finger to say wait a minute I'll be right with you.

If I leave the stage to go to the bathroom it is a challenge sometimes. So many people want to stop you.  A lot of think depends on the size of your crowd.

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[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

I also use the raised finger to do what I have to do before talking to someone.    

First time they get the first finger.

Second time they get the middle finger.  :wave:

3rd time they get all 5.  LMAO

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

"Most hacks dethrone themselves.   Given enough rope they hang themselves.   After they take so many pay cuts just to get work, it doesn't pay them enough, to work.    Seen it happen lots of times."


WELL SAID DOG!! I agree COMPLETELY on your entire reply. VERY well stated and articulated. Very much ON THE MARK! SPOT ON MATE!

Knuckleheads, irritating waitresses made to be DJ's, boneheads with abrasive personalities and incompetent wannabees wont last long. They wont build a crowd and will accumlate complaints until management sends em packing'.

Seen it many times before myself too.

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

They do nothing but make our legitimate job harder.
 
They keep our pay scale down, to match their incompetence.    :yes:  

They hurt our collective reputation.

They devalue karaoke as a legitimate form of entertainment.

They end up playing dive bars that I wouldn't want anyway.   Leaving the better places open for me.

They get more of the screaming drunk crowd.     Saves my equipment while punishing theirs.

They do make the good guys look better.


If they choose to enter this business with a halfa** attitude and investment and lack of professionalism, they get what they deserve.    Nothing comes cheap, especially making money.   This isn't just a fun job that requires little or no thought or investment.   It requires hard work, time, money and talent.    It's not a big party time.    

I work hard at karaoke.    

Set up, tear down.    

Maintainence.  

Investment.    

Practice.    

Office work.    

Advertisment.    

Promotion.    

Updating.  

Nothing has been slapped together with leftover livingroom crap and $200.      Most of my karaoke days are at least 8 hour days.     A full time job, requires a full "time" investment.

Evertime a hack falls, it's time for celebration, for all of us.