Karaoke Forums

Whant to know why a KJ certification will never work?  Read this thread from start to finish and you'll know why.  One, you have a couple on here who think they are karaoke Gods and their way is the only way.  The others like Lonman, myself and several others have found what works best for our situation, but, have a level head to always be open to new ideas.

Me? I'll keep doing what's best for me and continue to read these forums and separate the beef from the bull.

Kelly

Certain things seem to work in certain areas better than others.   So depending on your location and how much money you have to spend and how much money you want to make, choose wisely.  
 

This is exactly what I said.    Where do you want to take it?     So who's full of bull, level head?  

Only the left coast is right.       Sorry to everybody on the right side of the Mississippi.   You losers.    :yes:  :O    West coast rules.    :hi5:  :dancin:

Canada and Mexico are screwed too.     Jian, you're really screwed buddy, see you at the suicide pit.

Sing two songs and we'll jump together in the morning.    :wave:  :hug:

[quote="karyoker @ Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:50 pm"]It would take a credible state or national asociation to give exams on all aspects of KJ and DJ requirements and knowledge. Perhaps it could initiate with the national association of DJ'S.

I think something like this was tried with the AMERICAN KARAOKE ASSOCIATION
I think that org was swallowed by the ADJA AMERICAN DJ ASSOCIATION.

I think the AKA had all the good intentions but they just never materialized into anything.

[quote="karyoker @ Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:50 pm"]It would take a credible state or national asociation to give exams on all aspects of KJ and DJ requirements and knowledge. Perhaps it could initiate with the national association of DJ'S.

I think something like this was tried with the AMERICAN KARAOKE ASSOCIATION
I think that org was swallowed by the ADJA AMERICAN DJ ASSOCIATION.

I think the AKA had all the good intentions but they just never materialized into anything.

I was part of that effort.... There was about the same response then as now.  Everybody was immediately tied up in petty things that wouldnt even pertain to the bylaws and intent. I was asscociated with the folks that setup the NDA Click on about nda... And I tried to urge things in that direction.

We came to the conclusion a state or national association could not be formed over the internet. It would have to  be done with positive groups with a good ideas of what the initial bylaws and purpose of the orginization would develop into. And done in a meeting of the minds type lets do this.....And sit down and hash it out.

At this  point I could care less but if you think karaoke is not going to continue to diminish in profit without some orginization and promotional effort then carry on..

Steel Tips  Forever!!!!

I couldnt keep score!!!!!

Karyoker, you are absolutely 100% correct.  :worship:

As long as the newbies are not given the full correct information about everything involved, in operating a successful karaoke business, they will all turn into the dreaded wannabes.     We will be responseable for creating our own downfall.    Incomplete and inacuarate information hurts all of us and our ability to receive the money we should be making.

You still have a board full of posters that continue to put out bad and incomplete information.    They don't even know it, so how can you change them?    How are you going to get any forward motion, toward the correct solution?

Bigdog, sorry to say but as long as there are people with your attitude on those types of boards there never will be any agreement.  Any time anyone has suggested recording singers singing or using a stage or wired mics, or anything you don't agree with; your response is the same. "I'm too busy doing professional karaoke."  Which says anyone who disagrees with you is unprofessional.

Sorry but that type of attitude will never bring folks together. Maybe you don't mean to come across that way.  But that's the way it reads.  You have a lot of good ideas.  But they are not the best for all or the only way to do things.

Kelly

But at this point, most of the bar owners/managers have had a taste of the cheap karaoke & their clubs are either busy with the cheaper companies or they lose the clients & quit karaoke altogether not remembering they get what they pay for & I honestly don't believe that any kind of organization is going to help raise prices up to where they should have been years ago.  I remember when I started karaoke, we could make $250-300 per night without even a balk from the manager - why, because it was still a savings over the bands that we took over by at least 1/2 to 3/4 of what they WERE paying.  Now that karaoke has been the dominate for the last few years & more & more people getting into it for cheaper start up costs & running the shows for less & less, the owners/managers are going to take their chance.  I've seen some very busy shows with some VERY substandard equipment & selections.  The bar draws the people in in other ways like drink specials or other types of promotions.  They don't care that their karaoke may not be the greatest, the seats are still filled - HOW would an organization or certification help that?

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It would help if KJ's would refuse to do a gig for less than a certain amount.  But, I realize those that do it full time have to make a living.  I understand their reluctance to pull their bluff with the owner.

I pulled my "bluff" with my owner sometime back.  He knew I drew in the crowd.  he knew I knew he was making good money and he basically felt he had no choice. BUT, I had an offer to go else where.  I also didn't have to do karaoke to put food on the table.   It's easy to make a stand under those circumstances. I feel I have helped raise the rates in my area for the "good" KJ's.  

Adding to what Lonman said, there are karaoke bars in my area that do well.  BUT, (again) the bar owners there DO know the difference between good and bad KJ's.  Yet, will make no changes until the cash register does.

KJ's in my opinion are no different than a band.  We are there to generate entertainment.  The good ones will survive and the bad ones will continue to drift from one venueto another.

Kelly

Bigdog, I have to admit.  I love your enthusiam.  I don't hate ya; you just get on my nerves sometimes.  Maybe we just need some way to shorten your leash.  I suppose nutering would be out of the question?  LOL

Kelly

Sure it would help, but that is a big part of the problem.  People see this is a 'fun' job or something they can make few bucks doing 'what they love' & it actually lowers the standards for quality karaoke.  Many (no not all) that do it part time or for fun usually don't have as good of equipment or selection quality & most of the time don't even know how to run what they do have.  They have no reason to try to get more pay, as they are just doing it for fun.  I've seen people flat out state the money is a bonus & they'd do it for free!  There is no way with people out there doing the shows for so low, that the price to quality shows will ever raise back up - ESPECIALLY if there are singers that are willing to support such shows & are filling the seats of the clubs these shows are in.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

While I agree with most of your analysis Lon more factors are involved and I don’t flatly endorse a highly organized association and the certification angle was an attention getter. It got attentions but everybody went off on a tangent. This thread was started out of frustration for karaoke here is almost dead.

It wasn’t killed by the factors you presented The bars were killed first by over legislation and politicians with big money interests regulating with no regard for the small farmers business owners or bar owners. We had a small liquor store for awhile we couldn’t compete with big discount liquor stores who could sell for less we could buy because they could buy in volume. Bar owners are in the same boat . When they don’t even have the money to stock for the weekend they don’t have entertainment money. Rent and utilities are totally out of sight. I was talking the bud distributor a year ago here in Greeley.    At that time there were 2 bars in town that were in the black. With the clean air act in force maybe the Cactus Canyon and Doug Kershaws place north of town are the only ones making it.

I would love to go over to Loveland and see what’s going on It would cost $20 in gas and I wouldn’t be able to drink..And if I did go over there if the old singers and crowd was still there they would be outside smoking.

The solutions are of a greater magnitude than can be discussed here but it has to do with politics and somehow small businesses banding together and bars banding together and KJ”s banding together to have clout against the highly organized corps and developers that want the small businesses gone… It has nothing to do with types or quality of systems, rotations, or curtains around tables. These are personal characteristics that make us all different I might go on a tour of this country to see different shows I would hope that each one has its own personality according to the host and gives me a different perspective on karaoke. To be honest when I go to a new show I am not concerned with all the bs discussed here. If they have songs that I can sing, and I have sang hundreds, I can adapt to any system and have fun..

But as always Lon I appreciate your honesty  and logical opinions and sound knowledge in areas that I don’t have experience in… We would make a good team for designing and installing good sound systems……. So how do we take back our inheritage and our dream and get the good singers back in the bars??

I don't like the idea. We don't need certifications for everything. That's as bad or worse than a storm chasing license / certification.

Once you bring in authorities and legalities all your freedoms go out the window, probably along with all your fun.

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The Truth Is Out There

They have taken over and my fun is gone ..Any ideas how to fight them and get our rights and fun back?[/quote]

I didn't read this whole thread becuz it is long.  I read the first few post.  I have my FCC radio operators license.  I paid $7.00 for it back in 1982.  It is good for life.  I had to have it so that I could be a radio DJ, which I was for a school radio station.  You used to have it in order to be broadcast.  I don't know if it is like that now or not but I have it nonetheless.

I am a member of the American Society for Quality and they require a yearly fee.  And you have to take a test to ensure that you know what quality standards are.  The test is simple if you have been through any quality training at all.  And you can actually be a member without being tested.

I am a member of the CSAA (Central Station Alarm Association).  Fees are minimal and you can take a test to become certified.  If you search their site you will see many Employees that work for Siemens are Certified.  I worked for that company and I required all of the people that reported to me to be certified within a week of being hired or they would lose their jobs(I know I am mean, but it is a life and death job).

I am also a member of the Association of Call Center Managers.  This membership is based soley on the fact that all members are Call Center Managers.  They get together on a forum and they have a conference every year to exchange knowledge.  The fee is very resonable.  It's free.  If you choose to have a higher membership you can and those fees are resonable as well.

There are many different ways that an association can be run.  It doesn't necessarily have to be a situation where testing neads to occur.  But as an association if you wanted to certify people then the association would decide as a group what the testing should entail.  Just being able to say that you are a member of a Dj or KJ association would make your resume look even better and more professional.

Has anyone checked to see if there is such an association out there already?  Perhaps there is, maybe all of the things we are saying here have already been put into place?

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Will sing or fish for food!!I'm not quite right!!

I just did a quick google and came up with two different associations for KJ or DJ

This one is for Canada  http://www.cameodj.com/

This one is for all of North America  http://www.adja.org/

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Will sing or fish for food!!I'm not quite right!!

Dang Isis  :bigcry: you beat me to the punch ... couldn't even answer your question before you posted.

This is from CAMEO (Canadian DJ/KJ Assoc.)
Our objectives:

The provision of specific benefits, programs and services to DJs and KJs across Canada taking into consideration their regional concerns and differences.
The establishment and promotion of standards to effectively provide the consumer the utmost in professionalism, service, courtesy and assistance.
The provision of forums for professionals to meet and discuss mutual concerns and share ideas.
The improvement of the industry through education and accountability.
The promotion of the DJ and KJ as a professional entity.
Representation of the industry as a lobby and special interest group.
To act as an arbitration board between consumers, event planners and the Disc Jockey.
To establish regional support lines and assistance.

This is from ADJA
NEW BENEFITS FOR ADJA MEMBERS
We believe that the past 2 years we have helped you to learn how to earn more money.  Now in the coming year, in addition to increasing that learning & earning, we are going to help you learn how to keep more money, save more money on things you need & grow more money from the assets you have.

Look for the ADJA to announce more major benefits for members as the months proceed.  Remember we are here to help you build & grow your business.  That is all we think about & all we do. We are the only registered professional trade association for Mobile DJ’s.  

Dave - Clap when they're good, Clap when they're finished - Everyone gets applause!

Finally a professional.....Somebody in real life.... One who knows simple concepts....Finally somebody that isnt so tied up in self and opinion..One who can look at the forest and see the magnificence  and not the problems.  A flower in the middle of a desert...  Somebody that is positive and not looking for all the negatives..Isis would you marry me....  LOL

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