Karaoke Forums

I agree with this now, ten years ago something could have been initiated that could have worked to the kj's benefit, but today anything like that would be a joke to the bar owner.

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Also again, who would set the standard for the certification & what would they be?

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The awarding body defines the course and the level then puts it to the overseeing body whoever that might be in your country. It then gets approval.

Of course anyone can run courses/training that isn't certified.

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Dan Bayley

Bigdog, I'm not saying this to be smart-alecky, but I seriously doubt that you were "whelped" as the expert you claim to be (no offense intended with that either, as I have no info to make a judgement on).  Weren't you ever a newbie KJ at one point?  Didn't you have to do some experimentation and learning to figure out your formula for success that you implement so well?  Could you always afford the best-of-the-best systems, or was there a time when you had to make a choice of which upgrades to make at which times?  What exactly is wrong with starting small and improving as you go?  The analogy that comes to mind is from my military experience...even the saltiest dog of a chief was a wide-eyed recruit stepping off the bus at boot camp at first.  So wasn't the Bigdog at one time a Littlepup?

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[glow=white][scroll]Live, laugh, and love today--just in case tomorrow doesn't make it[/scroll][/glow]

anyway as I've stated before .....

if a newbee can undercut you and take your jobs with half the equimpent and disks well done to him.

Why spend/do more than you have to...quality is all about personal perception.

It sounds like to some people on here it's all a childish macho thing who's got the most discs who's got the best equipment.

sour grapes!

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Dan Bayley

No sour grapes.  I am particular about a certain sound when I am working.  I want everyone to sound their best.  So I get better equipment & know how to run things.  I started out small, all pawn shop items for the most part - still good albeit older stuff.  I don't necessarily buy the best, there is no reason to do that, otherwise i'd be running Allen & Heath mixers, but our sound is generally for the most part above average & we do tend to get the better singers out there & not so much the screamers.  
When I am out singing I want to sound as good as possible as well.  If I see a system using a couple BMB 'karaoke' speakers & 'karaoke' mixer amp, I will not sing because of the sound quality, that's not fun to me.  
Now the adage is true that a good engineer can take a bad system & make it sound decent but a bad engineer can take the best system & make it sound like ka ka!  As a rule, I haven't heard a bad system sound decent yet.

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But if a newbie with a bad system that sounds bad gets a job and the people have a good time the likes of bigdog seem to sit at home sucking their thumb and sulking.  LMAO

I really couldn't care less to be honest.... I dont care how good you are or think you are I avoid karaoke places like the plague it's just not my cup of tea.

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Dan Bayley

No that is very true.  With all the undercutters & pirate multiriggers out there, karaoke is generally not considered a 'quality' form of entertainment (anymore) just a thing to allow all the drunks to scream out a couple songs & they don't care what they are screaming on.  A good singer will generally seek out the few quality systems that do exist.



And you are on a karaoke site because????

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I think, instead of certifications, have a rating systems online that people who have used the KJs rate them. It would be something similar to ebay's feedback system. As a KJ, you give out the URL to your customers, they rate you based on your performance. Of course there are ways this system can be abused. May be we can have the customers be a contact referal as well. That way people just can't put fake ratings on it. I haven't thought this out but this may work well to establish the credibility.

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Seize the day and SING!!!

This is the story of how I got to where I am in the karaoke kingdom.

First of all I never wanted to go to a karaoke.   I went with a girlfriend to make her happy.     I sang a song and really had fun, from the applause and crowd noise.    It became addicting.     I started to go out to karaoke 4-5 times a week.    Karaoke was harder to find 15 years ago.  So I traveled a lot of miles to find different ones.    I always pay attention to details and noticed more things than the average person.    When I made up my mind that this was something I could do and make money at it, I started doing my homework.

I went to every karaoke I could find.   I took mental notes on how things looked and sounded.    I saw things that were very good and some things that were very unprofessional.      I do not do anything halfassed.     I do not buy cheap stuff, ever.   I'm worth every penny I spend on me.     When I go into business, I go into it.    I want my reputation to be the best it can be.     I don't and won't settle for good enough.

Some of the things I saw that I did/did not want to duplicate were:

1.  Corded mikes.  Never  
2.  Stage set up.    Never
3.  Curtain around the table.    The tangle of black spaghetti under a table looks
    very unprofessional.
4.  I wanted to use subs, not just tops.     Music contains bass frequencies, too.
5.  No yacking between songs like a jerk.    
6.  Two machines to eliminate dead air and blue screens.   To play more music.  
    To have continuous music.
7.  Cordless mikes that have two receiver channels, to eliminate dead spots/dropouts of the signal.
8.  I spent $110 for each laser disc, to set myself apart from the CDG guys.
9.  Totally professional presentation.
10.  My first business cards were $1 each.
11.  My first system was $20,000, brand new.   Including discs.     That put me right
     at the top of the karaoke heap.  From day 1.    I set the bar for quality karaoke
     in this entire area, before I did my first gig.   They are still trying to catch up to me.
12.  My equipment is all mounted in travel boxes, not duct taped together, as I have seen.
13.  Song books that look professional.
14.  An actual PA system like a band would use, not upgraded livingroom crap.
15.  I run a serious business, not a fun hobby.
16.  Fair rotation.
17.  Raise the pay that the average KJ was getting.     I charged more than everyone else.

Was I a newbie?   YES    But I quickly set myself apart from the averge KJ.
I had very limited help from one KJ.
Did anyone actually take my under their wing?     NO    
Did I do what it takes (quality investment) to be where I am now?   YES    
Did I take out a loan?    YES    Was it worth it?   YES    
Did I learn from stupid (good enough) KJs?    YES, by not duplicating them.    
DO people copy me?     They try.
Do I worry about my competition?      NO    It barely exists.
Would I change anything?     NO
Is my business reputation professional?     YES
Is my karaoke presentation (Looks, sound and actions) professional?    YES
Have I blown more money than most of you will ever make at karaoke?    YES    I'm sucking my thumb, 5 nights a week.    

If you want to copy anyone, copy the best.   Not the settle-fors.   Not the good enough guys.

If nobody wants or needs any regulation, you will die, unless you have put yourself in a position that it doesn't matter.    
Am I ahead of the competition?    
Do they take my jobs or can I take theirs?
Can I make the money I deserve or do I have to take less money because of the undercutters?      
Why are they undercutters?   Because we have no regulations or minimum standards for sound or professionalism.

It's a never ending circle of substandards, causing undercutters to exist.

We can let them drive or we can drive.   How do you want to get there?

Agree with most, but the stage issue.  To me a stage or staging area is more professional than not having one.
I also don't use cordless mics - no reason.  An SM58 is still an SM58 in the $100 corded or the $600 wireless.  But then again, I use a stage.

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1.  Corded mics -  more reliable than cordless.  They will never cut out due to interference.

2.  Stage - the majority of people go to karaoke to strut their stuff and no better place to do it than on a stage.

3.  Curtain around the table - what table, we don't need a stinkin' table (look at the gallery).

4.  Subs -  agreed, they make a big difference.

5.  No yakkin' - yep a great way not to promote the bar, and treat your singers like cattle being led to slaughter.

6.  Two players - a definite need for a back up player.

7.  Cordless mics - see #1.  You can never eliminate cut outs.

8.  Laser discs - they were nice (esp the Playboy series) but didn't last, as you know
CDGs are the norm.

9.  Professionalism - should be there (as with all businesses) but we know some bars don't give a crap.

10.  Business cards - necessary but today you can get fabulous professional cards for much less than a $1.00 (I think they saw you coming).

11.  Great equipment - it must be nice to be able to outlay $20,000 for a system and music right away, but most people have to go small and grow from there as with most businesses.  I highly doubt any bank would lend you that kind of money for a karaoke business.

12.  Set up - agreed, it should look professional.

13.  Song books - agreed, they must look professional and updated.

14.  Professional sound system - agreed, but some bars again do not care.

15.  Serious business - agreed, but who says you can't have fun also.

16.  Fair rotation - a must, whether an at the bottom or insert method is used consistancy is a must.

17.  Raise the pay - if your market allows it, great.  Some won't though.  An industry average is that 20% of net beverage sales should go towards entertainment.  That being said, some places will pay and others will not.  Then it comes down to will I work for $125 or hold off for $250 when you know no one else is going to pay that.  Do you take the $125 and eat or wait for $250 and starve.

In a perfect world we'd all get $500+ a night but it's not.  Undercutters will always be there along with cheap bars.  But I agree, if you're top notch, undercutters will be the least of your worries.  BTW we work 6 nights a week and have been for years.  At times we were doing 9 shows a week but hey you also gotta take a bit of a break and recharge.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Exactly!

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Whew! I'm getting a real lesson on how a thread can become a blanket

I agree with the assessment that dollars to quality a corded mike is a better buy.  However, a KJ friend of mine used to always carry 2 spares because it would only take one fool with too much 'tune lube' to think they were some kind of Hollywood rock star and swing the mike by the cord (sound of crystal popping as mike hits floor).

Reference certification (back on topic) I restate my position that I don't believe that it will happen in my lifetime.  However, a group such as those who have posted here can take the initiative to become a group of peers that develops a standard of professionalism that can be reviewed by anyone to compare one against.  Its the only way any profession ever rose above the mundane.  Heck, all you used to have to do to be a doctor was have a pair of pliers, some catgut and needle and some snake oil!

A good mic will take the punishment - i've been using the same 2 SM58's since '94-95 that have been dropped, swung, flung & whatever else & they still sound as good as day 1.  I replace the mic screens fairly often though.



Except that the group of peers usually can't agree on what should be standard - which there in lies the problem.  The way I run my show & rotation may be absolutely opposite the way someone else runs theirs.  Some people describe things they do as gold, that I would never think of doing.  What works in one club, may not in another.

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That's right, buys the best $600 mics & cheapy Alesis $100 processors.



Like Tim said, must be nice to have that kind of cash lying around to start with.  Most don't.



If you can get more, more power to ya.  Around here, the undercutters killed karaoke for the quality club kj's.  Most of the good club kj's now do more private parties.  Better money.



Which is PROBABLY the reason you can get your asking price...no competition.  Law of supply & demand.  Come to Seattle & try to get your price...it won't happen no matter how good you THINK you are.



All that stuff & no real existence as to where you may be..., good marketing, very PROFESSIONAL  :no: !  BD slogan.  I provide the best karaoke in the world, come & find me...if you can!  We'd have sooner luck trying to find a treasure chest with a X marks the spot map!

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[shadow=deepskyblue]I'm impressed, I've never met such a small mind inside such a big head before.[/shadow]

So maybe the starting point is agreeing on a "Code of Ethics" addressing such topics as legal music, business actions, interaction with peers, etc.  Some service professions that have a great degree of variety in their delivery have established such a code.  I'll have to look through my files to see if I can find a strawman.

By just having the code the group would not get into the details of the best or only way to conduct a rotation, set up a show, transition singers, etc.

I hear the word professional being bandied about like my way is professional and the only way...
I have a system that is geared towards setting up in any venue That is why I like showing my farm pics...

Table?  pic1

 Table2 pic1

A  professional can setup in any venue on a flat bed trailer or a picnic table stage or no stage?

A professional can adapt to any situation venue or crowd..

A professional can Kj, Dj, Mc or entertain.. There is a new term VJ...
 
I rarely brag but I can walk into anybodys show on this forum and when I pick up the mic and yak or whatever the crowd knows I am not the average karaoke singer. And when I start singing (any genre) the bar comes to a total stop.. And they say who is that? I am a professional.. And can do it on ave to pro systems.

I can run wired wireless or whatever the singer prefers..

As a kj I have about 8 years experience As a karoke singer about 15 years As a singer about 60 years. I know what singers need from virgin to professional...

As a singer I prefer a stage where the monitor is place where I can hear just it or find a sweet spot where the moniror and mains are balanced. If I dont want to sing on the stage I can walk out on the dance floor..

But most of all I will never be satisfied with my system or ways of doing things I am constantly looking for better ways And if I get to the point where I know it all and quit learning I will quit...

And I can dance better than I can sing or KJ...

3-T, good to see ya, I thought you died.   Great comedy as always.  LMAO

I think I know the reason for Seattle's karaoke problems.    I don't exist out there and you do.


My competition is there, it is just not something I need to worry about.   Other than the fact that they drag down the price of quality.     They don't take jobs from me.  I'm surrounded by totally incompetent competition.    Like flies on a turd.

As far as a loan for buying all new equipment.    How bad do you want it?    You must not be hungry enough.     I'm contemplating a whole new system from the ground up.  That will include two computers, 4 speakers, mixer and all the other basic necessities for a professional sound system.   It will cost thousands of dollars.    And guess what, it will get paid for, somehow.   If it ain't first class, I don't do it.   You know why?   Because I'm hungry and I have a professional reputation to live up to.     For me, not for anyone else.    I feel good about myself and my karaoke business.   My "imaginary" karaoke income speaks for itself.  

The Alesis was $200.   14 years, still works perfectly, never had a problem.   Just like your corded mikes.

I never claimed to be a professional singer.     I can sing good, but I won't get a contract.


DS, you're beating your head against a wall.      There are only a handful on here that you would want to pattern yourself after.    Certain things seem to work in certain areas better than others.   So depending on your location and how much money you have to spend and how much money you want to make, choose wisely.

And don't become too successful, they'll crucify you too.    :shock:  :O

That's just funny in itself.  Formal invitaion, come on out & sweep the karaoke nation in our fair city with your charm, wit &...well, the best system (in your eyes), i'll even put you up for 1 month.  I guarantee you would not even find a gig in that time period - well that is unless you want to work for $100 or less  LMAO !

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[shadow=deepskyblue]I'm impressed, I've never met such a small mind inside such a big head before.[/shadow]