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I'm not technical enough to know the subtleties of how sound is generated from a computer harddrive vs a decent CD player playing a decent quality CD..

I've heard a few discuss computer just doesn't sound as good.  While others have said this isn't the case.  Like anything else, I'd "guess" the quality of the drive, computer components, and cords used has a lot to do with all this as well..

As things stand technologically so-far.   Are there advantages to CD players sound-wise ?   Has this been proven to be beyond subjective ?

Ollie,  I need to head over to your site,  I've been quite busy, but I have a question about the 2510 conversion ?  Remember that ?  I think that's what it was.  Mod'ing SSB rigs.

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I choose 192Kbps as the lowest MP3 bitrate, which seems to be a commonly agreed threshold for "near CD quality". With any lower bitratet, he degradation is subtle, but noticeable. The difference between 256Kbps and 320Kbps MP3 is virtually indistinguishable, except for a light boost in the upper midrange and treble. 192Kbps MP3 is more than adequate for listening with a computer or in a car.  The distortion and lousy frequency response of systems themselves (as well as the high ambient noise) make the 192Kbps MP3 sound so similar to the original CD that the advantage of the smaller storage requirements of the MP3 far outweigh the sonic benefits of the CD.

I just ripped a friends whole karaoke library for him at 224kbps using a variable bitrate. The average size worked out to about 1.5MB per minute, this makes an album between 100-110MB each instead of 600-700MB. The sound is noticeably different but when played at a gig or in a car the lost tones would have been lost anyway.

I think a computer is capable of producing better than CD quality but it depends on the compression of the file format and what the player can handle on playback.

I really would like to know if I am wrong in any of this.

Some say a CD sound better, some say you can't tell the difference, but it is subjective.  You could go to a show with a KJ that used discs, and he may have spent a TRUCK LOAD of money on his PA equipment, and then think man this sounds good.  THen on the other hand go to a show with a PC based system, and it could sound like crap, becasue the KJ has crap PA equipment.  Unless tested side by side on the same system, all debate is subjective.

For me, I can tell a very subtle difference between my computer setup, and when I use a disc.  If a purchased a high end sound card, I probably would not notice any difference.  FOr me it is a treashold that I can tolorate, it is a great tradeoff not to have to lug around CDs and worry about scratches, and have a computer automate the rotation for me!

You know I've worked with both and it never entered my mind that the sound quality
was different until the subject came up. Yikes I can't tell the difference. I hope I'm not slipping.

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Subjective in a sense goes without saying.  Whenever you are comparing how individuals perceive something such as sound the results are "subjective".  HOWEVER,  would a discerning ear be able to notice a difference in the two different mediums generating the sound for example when cranked thru loud-speakers ?  Would the separation be better on the CD in most cases ?  Headphones MIGHT not offer the same delicate separation in certain cases.  What we MIGHT discern in a certain setting might not be noticeable thru cheaper headsets. Interpretation of ANY aesthetic area is always subjective. I'm picky however  Let's assume most of us have a somewhat "critical" ear.

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Dont' you read?

Babs.   At what volume were you listening.  What was your setup ?  Speakers ?  Headphones ?  I assume you used both as a KJ ?

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The answer Mr. Steven is YES  an orginal CD/CDG would have a better sound quality than that same CD/CDG ripped and played back on a Computer

The real question would 99.9% of the listening public be able to tell the differance
when played by itself ..I say NO

If you played the CD and then played an audio file at 192kps versus 128kps versus 320kps  as a hearing comparison test  you should be able to hear some degradation in quality from one to another.

Thanks Jam.  That certainly makes sense !  Personally, I don't know.  Appreciate the input !  I have yet to put one of my MP3 players, or computer thru my decent entertainment center.  So I haven't personally done a head-to-head in this area. You also bring up a very good point Jam.  I've ordered CD's from companies I assumed were "original" CD's.  Tapes too.. They obviously were not  :(   J&R of all places.  I really like them, some tapes I got were horrible sounding,  as though they were taped from a line-out on a boombox

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When I rip to .wav, with no compression, I don't hear ANY sound difference!

The compression is the thing that does it. And duh... take a look at the file size... if you remove part of it to make it smaller, well YEAH it's going to sound different!

It's all subjective, nothing more.  Some people say an mp3 ripped at 128 is indistinguishable from the cd while other can tell the difference between the 2 in a heartbeat.  I think it also has to do with the system it's played back on.  I think a hard drive has the potential to sound as good or equal to a cd, but alot has to do with the sound card & what the rest of the system is.  A cd will always sound cleaner & fuller than a computer file IMO but the technology is catching up & that will probably change someday - especially with artists starting to release music for download.

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MP3 is always compressed correct ?

I guess the point is, we shouldn't confuse "Computer harddrive playback" with the limitations of MP3 format. There are larger files such as a WAV file with far more capacity to deliver better sound.

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I was going to ask about this, soundcard I'd think plays quite a factor of course too, as do software programs used to tweak sound.  Technology will keep bettering soundcard technology.  Certain soundcards and systems offer more sophisticated output and surround capabilities. Also certain software programs such as that TDK EQ'ing program can tweak and EQ our sound too, even on a basic setup..  Alot does go into it, Given the ability to tweak your sound to your liking, a smaller computer often does end up sounding better than a nice home entertainment theatre. It is very subjective I suppose !

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yes, the mp3, mp4 are compressed formats for audio and video.

If you have them in their true non-compressed formats, unless the original recording was in analog, there will be no degredation at all (maybe so minute you need an analyizer that can look at it microscopically).

In one of the threads, Bigdog was talking about taking the pioneer laser and converting them to computer. He thinks that you need a 400GB drive just for those... and if they're not compressed, you just may...

That makes sense Matt.  Because to be honest, some of the files I've downloaded in my past have sounded everybit as good, if not considerably better thru my computer setup than ANYTHING I've heard on CD on my living room system thru JBL speakers and a decent Onkyo CD player..  I never understood why.  Computer hard drive CAN deliver fabulous sound.  But here's why I might hear it..  I added a subwoofer to my computer system and have 4 other speakers too.  So I suppose when sampling what a computer harddrive CAN in fact deliver, it's only fair to give it a fair shot in a head-to-head by at least having speaker capability to hear what the computer harddrive is delivering.  Nothing thru junky tiny speakers will be a fair vehicle for sound delivery.  Naturally the computer will often be at a disadvantage in such a comparison if a person doesn't take time to set up speakers, do some tweaking of their computer audio system as they would a home entertainment audio set up...

The comparison would need to be computer CD vs Computer HD, too...  Not home entertainment CD player vs Computer with lousy speakers and poor quality hardware and software.  As I stated however,  Some of these wav files sound fabulous imho. Yet again, that's just what I hear, it's not "fact".  I might very well be overlooking alot.

ADDED IN:   I'll bet with some EQ'ing the sky is the limit as to how good you can get WAV files to sound.

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wav files - a direct rip from a cd, is essentially the cd quality which is why it's such a large file.  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WAV

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In reference to the original question a few months ago a buddy was running an old JVC that desperately needed the optics cleaned.. I hooked up my laptop into his mackie 808 and run the show.. The audio was 1000% better.

Digital audio in itself is less prone to noise and quality is more constant and lasting because it doesnt have all the weaknesses  of analogue sound generation.

To hear differences in our systems as far as comparing rip rates digital or cd , The efx and procs have to be turned off. The volume has to be at a level where room acoustics wont enter into the equation.  With all on and playing at a "crowd noise" level it is impossible to differeniate between any of them.

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Here's a cool site <off topic - sort of>

http://www.cedmagic.com/history/index.html
Shows some pics & history of multimedia from the 1800's to now.  The first video disc concept in 1927?

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Yea Lon I might be the only one here old enough to know what wow and flutter is

Well maybe Kappy does...

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