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Nope, it is not a volume control, so he is correct....

First you eq the room, then correct output gain out of the eq with it, and then forget it till next room....

If most of your sliders are up AND the output gain is also up, you got a bigtime confusion thang going on....If sliders are up, then output gain should be down to compensate for all the up sliders.....

Unity gain is what you seek....Unity means 1 volt in the device for 1 volt out...The signal will vary from one volt, but as long as you are at unity that will take care of itself where whatever value goes in also goes out.....It means no gain or loss thru the device, just filtering or FX as offered by the device...You want the power amp to be the device that does the amping, not any line level device before the power amp. As it stands, you are amping the output of the eq way beyond it's input, so you are not at unity thru the eq.

There is only one amp before the power amp that should do ANY real amping and that is the mic pre amp....The mic pre amp is designed to bring the mic output up to line level and things need to stay at line level all the way thru the mixer and other devices up to the power amp inputs.....

all the other devices should offer filtering and FX but not add/subtract any amping to the line level signal....so keep it simple and envision just two real amps...one at the mic and one for the speakers....The rest are itty bittty teeny little amps used only to keep the signal near unity....The mic preamp amps a huge ammount, and so does the power amp...Everything in between needs to stay at unity if possible....and it is possible.

Distorted gain structure is when you vary from unity in the signal chain and when that happens you lose dynamic range....Dynamic range is the distance tween the noise floor and clipping.....As you narrow the signals dynamic range you lose the "life" of the music.......Everything starts to sound flat....you can make it louder, but it still sound flat.

Let's make this painless......Really, let's start at step one.....

Remove the Eq from your system completely and let's just connect the player to the mixer, and the mixer to the power amp, then the power amp to the mains....

you got the player patched into a stereo strip, right?, If not, then connect player L/R one to each into any two mic strips....It's the same as one stereo strip except you will use two mono/mic strips and two strip sliders.

So let's turn it all on and then reduce all sliders to bottom.....Go ahead and set all active strip eq twistys to mid point(active means you got the player input plugged in).....reduce all active input strip twistys to zero....Set pan twisty to mid point...reduce all other active strip twistys to zero....deselect any active strip switch/bussing buttons including mutes and low cuts.

Now start the cdg player using a  music cd.....Crank the power amp "volume" knobs up to max and forget them......Slide the mixer masters up to unity(0) and forget them.....You should have no sound yet....if you do, go back and read it again.

Ok, standby by for sound!....now ease the active strip sliders up.....do not take them above unity....stop at maybe -6dB......you might have a little sound by now...Cool either if you do or don't, it's cool.

Now crank the active strip input twistys up till you hear sound and keep cranking it till you say this is the max level I'm ever going to play this thing...Stop.....

Wana turn it down?...Then use the masters.......Wanna turn it back up?...then use the masters.

Ok, what if your stereo strip inputs/input don't have input gain control twistys like the mono mic strips do?....No problem, just do all the above and you will start to get sound as you ease the player strip slider up.....stop the slider/sliders when you reach max level you will ever play, then use masters to control sound levels....If the strip slider has to go above unity(0) for you to get the sound level you want, then you need bigger power amp and speakers......do not never ever place strip sliders above unity or above masters....do not never ever raise masters above unity to get more sound from your speakers...buy biger amp and speakers instead.

You have just set your board for proper gain with the player....It's done....don't touch it except to turn it down at the masters....so go ahead and turn it down while we connect a mic and stop the CD player....don't touch the CD strip sliders or twistys.

Now let's connect a mic and set it too......Let's set it for proper gain into and thru the mixer like we just did the CD player.

Pick a mono mic channel and take care to look at each twisty....Reduce the top input gain twisty to zero....Set eq twistys to mid point.....set pan twisty to mid point....crank all other twistys to zero.....switchout all buss switches....if you got low cut who cares at this point....in or out on low cut don't matter-ignore it.

Slider masters back up to unity(0).

Now plug in the mic and turn it on if it's got a switch......Slide the mic strip slider up to about -6 or -10dB....no sound yet, I know....now start singing loudly into the mic and increase the mic input twisty till you say that's loud nuff and as loud as I will ever want it....Stop....Was the mic input clip light lighting?....Go back and sing loudly again and see....if it is, then crank down on the input twisty till it just flickers only when you peak and slide the slider up to you say that's as loud as I will ever sing....input led flicker is cool...steady light is bad.....no light is no big deal.

Now start CD player and sing along.....Is mic too loud compared to music, or is music too loud compared to mic?....Reduce slider on whichever is too loud compared to the other.....Maybe raise one or the other or both as long as you don't take either above masters.....once mix tween mic and player is good, control both with masters....you are now mixing, my man!......you got proper gain into and thru the board......

Set eq to zero all the way across and plug it in tween the mixer and power amp and see how it sounds cut in/out.....Tweek that suckers freqs and then tweek output gain on eq to be same loudness in/out.......you are now mixing and eqing with proper gain....bring on the next problem, cause you can handle it.

Now that you got a grip on the gain thang, I'll tell you what those big knobs on the front of your amp really are...

Those are amp input gain controllers.

I know it sux and you thought we was all done with "gain"....Nope.

But awhile back I said they were "limiters" not "volume" knobs, now I am saying they are input gain controlls?....Yep.

Use them to limit the input gain to your amps.

If you have a good idea of your system specs, you will know max voltage out of your mixer at unity cause you read it in the mixer owners manual....if you have maintained decent gain structure thru the system, then you can use the calibrated indicators at the knobs on the amp to properly control gain at the amp....If you are really close to unity thru your system then you can assume the mixer out signal is the same as amp in signal up to the input gain knobs.

To be honest with you, if you are using just a single amp, crank then it all the way up and forget them....You can later learn to tweek them as you brush up on dB and electrical math.

But if you are bi-tri amping, you need to fool with them now.

Ok, if you got more than one amp, break out the owners manuals for them....turn all manuals to the specs pages.....Scan down till you see specs listed for "amp input sensitivity".....It will be expressed in voltage....all amps vary....some as low as .75 volts, some as high as almost 2 volts.

What is input senisitivity?.....That is the amount of input voltage required to make the amp hit full power.....So if your tops amp is lower in sensitivity than your sub amp, it will hit full power before the sub amp, huh?...not good.

So does that mean you go buy a different top or sub amp?...Nope, just crank the big knobs down a little on the amp with the lowest input rating...yep, you can now finally play with those knobs!

The calibration marks on the knobs will allow you to match the amps input sensitivies to each other....you gotta do a little math again, but it's necessary if you want your amps to work well together.

As you reduce the big knob it takes more voltage in the signal to make the amp hit full power....as you turn it up, it takes less....so if one amp needs 2 volts and the other needs .75 volts, then crank down on the .75 amp until it also waits until 2 volts to react.

Now you know why you don't want to fiddle with them during a show...you set them once and forget them until you change amps....They seem to work like volume knobs, but that ain't what they are for....that's what your mixer masters are for.  

Did you know that in the old days, many pro amps had those knobs on the back?...Yep, and they were much smaller then....They moved them to the front to save you from digging in your racks in the dark....They didn't move them up front cause you need to adjust them often, just to make it easier for when you did...I don't know why they started making them so big, it confuses people...folks start thinking they are the same as the ones on their home stereo, so they use them as 'volume' knobs....

My little Peavey 260 monitor amp has them on the back and that's fine cause I have never had to adjust them not once....If I had more than one monitor amp, then I would have to adjust the most sensitive amp, but I'd only have to do it once.

So now you know what those knobs are for. They allow you to match all amps to react the same off the mixer masters....And thats why they call them the masters.

  Very good Keith, now everyone should be able to get it right.

The EQ should have no noticeable change in the volume, when you take it in or out of the loop, right.   I think that's what you were trying to say.

In so many words  :whistle: , basically that is what he was getting at!

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I guess I need to learn to compress myself, huh?