Karaoke Forums

I think a perfect song can be subbed on SS. Consider the two aspects that have been discussed. Emotion and technical. The two are separate parts of the whole. Techical requires concentration to get it right. But, so does driving. We don't think about the hundreds of things we need to do perfectly to drive. Once the technical part of singing becomes so routine, the singer is free to explor the emotional side of singing. Sure, professional singers take years to perfect the technical. But often they get a lot of help from the studio, right down to software designed to correct their pitch so it comes out perfect. A song can be sung in sections over and over until the singer (finally does it perfect...technically and with emotion). The parts can be cut and pasted together for the best overall mix. It could take weeks or months to achieve, which is what really happens for every professional record released. Can it be done? Yes, I think so, but to what end? The fun here is hearing people sing for pleasure. That's enough for me.

Chris,  How about adding innovation, or creativity (as well) to that mix ?   Jazzy has done some amazing things with her imagination, musical skills, etc.  I believe "Creativity" is also a slightly different area

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Exactly Chris...

_________________
[glow=violet] **Sing like nobody's listening...live like there's no tomorrow**[/glow]

I need to have the pads reseated on my Alto, Likely need an overhaul on the Tenor, and I've been eyeing this Selmer Sop...  There goes a months pay alone...


(well close anyway)

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Oh yeah,  the neck joint, and mouthpiece makeshift corking isn't working well anymore either,  masking tape is getting old  :(   So maybe even the Alto really needs more than just pad reseating.. and than there're the Gemeinhardt flutes.... Did I mention the dried pads on those ? Oh yeah,  I forgot about the other Conn Alto, "Lady on the Bell" model.. I suppose I should take care of that as well, very old. THAT was a tag-sale gem !  Still needed an overhaul !


Better ask mom for an early allowance, it's not my fault that I was born  :(

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Yes, creativity can certainly be added in the mix. Reaching the goal of a perfect sub should include the singer's ability to add something unique. I was already thinking of this aspect as part of the loosely defined "emotion". Hard to catagorize that aspect because so many things come to mind but creativity could be a good substitute for the term "emotion". Basically I was getting at the whole left side/right side brain thing, "emotion/creativity vs. logic" with the logic side of course being the technical part.

Creativity is strictly up to the singer/artist and how they want to interpret the song. Creativity and technical really go hand-in-hand to make a "perfect" sub as Michael demonstrated in a recently by singing a Beatle song "technically" correct but purposely with no style or flare. The intent was to get responses to improve it. As it was, it was horrible (not a slam Michael, ha ha ha). All the comments revolved around putting some style and emotion into the song. I would consider that whatever style or creative effort added would produce a more perfect sub. The style is determined by the artist. The listener either likes or dislikes the style but to me, the blend of tech an creativity makes it perfect.

My response may be a little disjointed but I can't stay long and just typed as I thought. Hope this made some sense.

We might disagree here.   Alot of "technicians" lack creativity.  One can preclude the other IMHO, in fact it often does.  I'm quite skilled technically, yet like a computer that regurgitates ONLY what it "hears" I lack Creativity as a musician. I'm a decent cover artist.  I don't compose or innovate. Although regarding particulars of the brain contributing to both, as to whether it's a technical area of the brain that also contributes to a person creativity, I don't know about that.. I forgot all about how certain parts of the brain are responsibility for certain mathematical, and abstract areas

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

and what of us other poor sods who are not overly techy and have all the creativity and originality of one's first morning bowel movement? how do we improve?

_________________
"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

One of the things I'm going to do to improve technically is to learn how to throw my voice. I saw an ad in the back of a comic book for this and I can learn to do it within the comfort of my own home in less than 10 minutes and all for $1.49!

Michael just sent you a film clip from a guy who obviously answered the same ad

_________________
"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

There are different types of "Technical" skill..  I'm the most NON-technical person most know in the "mechanical" sense of the word, yet I have an ability to grasp certain types of abstract areas.. I'm a technician because my pattern as somebody who learned how to listen, assimilate, Apply (play exactly what I hear intricately), I "Mimic" using a certain skill I acquired over years, that's a type of technical ability.  "Playing by ear".. I apply what I know, there are exact patterns, best I can describe what I do is direction flow, it's quite geometric,  I'm quite good at Geometry, I Aced it at a very young age... (yet failed Algebra, and still can't grasp it) But it's not mechanical type "techy" skill such as playing with motors, or innards of electronics things... it's no electronics "technical" ability, problably because I'm into aesthetic things, and don't like dirty greasy parts... .. I like the car shape, I don't like the ugly engine.. (plain and simple)  I HATE getting grease on my hands, HATE IT !!!! I HATE OIL,  suntan lotions etc... OK, WHERE WAS I ?...

... I'm no "engineering wiz" by any stretch of the imagination.  But TECHNICAL is also defined as particular skill in an area of an art. It's a characteristic of an art applied, there's a group of rules that are applied, whether we are aware of them or not... Just like a Medical Doctor, Nurse, Dentist, We work with a particular set of rules to do what we do.

A person that "Creates" or "Innovates" goes OUTSIDE the box, or "normal accepted set of rules".  However the technician is already skilled in an established field of his craft/art..  The Creator runs off, and does his own thing..  He doesn't keep within circumscribed limits

OK, Done editing, DAMN my writing sucks today !  Worse than usual  :shock:

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Every once and awhile you come across a musical genius

A person who can absorb complex theory, learn to read, apply modal theory, and advanced composition, understand it... Also has the ability to practice the boring Sh**...but also has a knack to listen, assimilate, play without music... Something more dimensional than the "Paint by numbers" classical site-reading pianist ONLY  (Paint by numbers musician TM@ Kappy <--thought site reading only was boring and dry)... BUT IN ADDITION, this brilliant person can CREATE, and do wild stuff nobody in our world yet recognizes as brilliant,  They will in the future... Many of us just think this person has become eccentric..  That's the innovator, and Creator... Ahead of their period,  Trend-setter, almost Claroyant..

When A person can do all three areas brilliantly, to me that's a musicians musician, artists artist,  Scientific genius, etc...  It's the person who isn't confined to inductive reasoning and ability... They go beyond, and think beyond the box....

Is the concert master in the orchestra, *first seat 1st violinist*, concert pianist, a brilliant musician ?  Or just someone that possesses expertise in a specific area of music ?   These are excellent site-reading musicians,  often fabulous ears... They are great technicians.. and also often quite restricted too, and stubborn.  So what is a "brilliant artist" ?   I dunno  <shrug>

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I think all somebody has to do is call someone else "brilliant" and the title just seems to stick.....it's very arbitrary really.

Excellent Point Michael,  but I think there are a few traits that help... Such as the creations of Nikola Tesla.  My guess is he had a decent head on his shoulders. Besides that I agree, it IS arbitrary, relative, subjective, etc..

Newton, Descarte, Goethe, Einstein..  These weren't just your normal everyday slacks.  It's usually indicated by the statistically very very high positive area of the Bell Curve, where few are found..  LMAO

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I usually attach the title "brilliance" with someone who is just extremely clever, who thinks outside of the conventions.  For example, a comedian who is exceptionally gifted in "observational humor" (the hardest kind probably) would be George Carlin, who notices little things we take for granted every day of our lives and accept them.  George notices these things!  This is what brilliance is in my dictionary.

and for some reason, to me, Carlin doesn't make that classification, but Stephen Wright does, for his level abstract ability

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

don't forget Rip Taylor.

 We could get deeply into a semantic debate over "technician" and "creativity" as it applies in different fields.  My everyday occupation is as a technician in electronics...and yes, I'd agree that in that field, I had to learn a lot of information and establish skills.  But I can list several instances where an "outside-the-box" solution was required to solve some particularly thorny problems.

So is this a fuzzy area?  Is that a creative solution to a technical problem?

(and FTR...there's no sarcasm or baiting intended here...it's an honest question that sprang to mind)

_________________
[glow=white][scroll]Live, laugh, and love today--just in case tomorrow doesn't make it[/scroll][/glow]

Speaking of Rip, whatever happened to that guy that used to be so popular for about 1 year back in the 70s? The guy whose shtick was "My name is Raymond J. Johnson, Jr.  But youse can call me Ray, or youse can call me RJ, or youse can call me Ray Jay, or youse can call me Johnny, or youse can call me RJJ, or youse can call be R. Jay Johnson, or youse can call me junior, or youse can call me Raymond, but oohhhhhhh, youse doesn'ts have to call me Johnson!"


Now there was a genius.

I'll be honest,  I forgot about him.  This doesn't mean I don't think he was clever, I remember what he looks like, however forgot his content. I just don't remember what he does... I need to look him up now... Do you know of any Giche Guy areas ?  That guy had me rolling on the floor, but I only saw him once or twice...

Different areas of brilliance IMO..


Carson had a way of getting into the heads and winning his audience.. He was just captivating.. To me that takes a type of brilliance..

Robin Williams I LOATHED as a comedian, but as a dramatic actor I thought he was absolutely brilliant.

Now to me,  Dana Carvey, and Jim Carrey can transform themselves almost entirely into their character, to me THEY are brilliant in many areas of Comedy, Mime, acting, and just great clowns...  Maybe if I was older, I'd have found more of Jerry Lewis brilliant, but IMO he was just very good at being a Clown, and he studied movement, and was quite good at that...

Big Dog too.

JMO...    To me "brilliant" and genius or near synonyms.  I don't hand the title out sparingly... To be brilliant is the ACTUAL 9 or 10 in Singer's Showcase,  they have my COMPLETE respect as Singers.  While there are statistically a higher number in the SHowcase than found in most places... There aren't THAT many that are brilliant.. but a VERY high percentage compared to the normal setting, and most competitions..

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".