Karaoke Forums

Alright, Where does being ethical stop and being part of business start? Ive notice in my area an increase of KJ's throwing the "its not ethical" line out if any other KJ (they feel) threatens their gig, especially if they know them. There are Kj's that believe that it is only ethical for another Kj to replace them when they give the OK. I'm one that believe's it is unethical to approach a gig that you know someone else has trying to get in, but do not think it is unethical if the bar calls you inquiring about your services indicating they are looking for change. This is if I know the KJ. I just recently had a business call me and inquire about whether I would be interested in doing Karaoke for them. Well, I new the person that was doing it their so I ask what happen to them. Their response was they have decided to go in another direction, put a new face in there. I was under the assumption they had already broken ties, but then I found out they had not discussed this with their current KJ. So Finally I talk to the KJ myself and she seemed upset that I would even entertain the offer even if ties were broken. She believes you should never take over a gig that a fellow KJ had. I pretty much know all the Kj's in my area and if I did that I would never get a gig. I would have no problem with another KJ accepted a gig if the bar wanted to get rid of me. Its business. I think this is one of the major problems with Karaoke is that you have ones that are in it as a business and treat it as such and others that do it as a hobby and feel once they get a gig the bar should keep them no matter what. When do you feel business is business.

In my view anybody can ask anybody to do business with them.  It is called free enterprise.  Some may not like it but it is not unethical.  I highly doubt any court in the country would convict someone of this (unless there is a binding contract).

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You can be strange but not a stranger

If a bar calls me to retain my services (or to replace) i'm not going to question it - unless I heard through channels that the bar itself sucks.  
If my bar calls someone else to replace me, then I must not be doing my job right!  Spit happens, move on!

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Are you a part time business man or full time?    I know there are a boat load of crappy KJs out there, pretending to be good or think they already are good.   They want to use one speaker, never upgrade their equipment or song list.   Their work ethic is poor, at best.

I am in the karaoke business 100%, nothing less.    Each show I do is the best that I can do.   I will NEVER settle for anything that doesn't make me proud.   Or that would cast me or my reputation in a bad light.    I have replaced many, many "so called KJs."    I have been replaced when the bar owner thought he could do better with someone cheaper.    It never works.     You can start out with crap and upgrade, but you can't start with the best and go backwards.

If the KJ was doing "ETHICAL" karaoke, that means doing it the right way, they wouldn't have to worry about being replaced by someone "unethical."  

Let me explain their definition of unethical.    

It's someone that out classes them.    
That blows them out of the water.
That has a good system and a nice song selection.
That doesn't act like a jerk.
That doesn't play favorites.
Someone professional, that worries about having and maintaining a good reputation.  

They will call you unethical for being what they can't or don't want to be.    But unethical is the last thing that you are.    

You would think that a KJ that keeps getting replaced, would figure out the problem sooner or later.   It's them.  

If you don't take the job, someone else will.     If you can't keep it, someone else will.    

ALWAYS RUN LIKE A BIGDOG.   Staying ahead of the pack is the name of the game.   The view is better too.

I had one call me a while ago and ask if my crowds were getting smaller.     The gas price thing is taking a toll.   But my jobs are still steady.    Their's aren't.    Anyone want to guess why?  :whistle:   Oooooo Watch out..... you just stepped in Bigdog do.    

As you can tell, I know it's hard,  LMAO   but I have no sympathy for KJs that aren't KJs, if you know what I mean.   You will never survive, if you never want to be even with or above your competition.   And take the steps necessary to achieve that goal.  And crying won't help.

Steal every job you can.     You "unethical" SOB.    LMAO

You can't steal something they lost.

As freelance web developer I often tout for other peoples business.

If I can do a better job for the right price then why shouldn’t I go for it.

Another angle would be that it is unethical for me not too!! This business is clearly not getting value for money or quality of service and therefore as an honest professional feel I should intervene.

It’s business and it’s a dog eat dog world. You win some you lose some.
If you lose to many you need to find something that your better at!

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Dan Bayley

Wow, Big Dog is on a roll this week. I think he hit it on the head with:



I also agree with timberlea in that trying to compete with someone else in your same field is not unethical, and 99% of the time, if you are doing a better job, you are going to keep your job and if they are doing a better job, you will be replaced. And remember that your #1 job is TO MAKE THE BAR MONEY, so if the other guy undercuts you AND puts enough people in the seats to INCREASE the bottom line, HE IS DOING A BETTER JOB THAN YOU, regardless of if he has a crappy system and song selection!! It isn't a matter of "which KJ is better at being a KJ," it is a matter of who makes the bar the most money. No bar owner/manager that is going to be a bar owner/manager very long is going to hire a new KJ if you are putting good $$$ in his pocket!!

In fact, in a free market economy, like we have, competition always INCREASES the quality of goods and services, and should be welcomed in bulk. If you can't handle competition in the business, you may not be cut out for the business!! You are not an island, you are but a microscopic part of an industry and EASILY replacable if you are not striving for the highest quality you can provide to your bar owner for both of you to make maximum profit.

Now trying to steal gigs from FRIENDS of yours in the KJ business definately infringes on PERSONAL ethics, but is completely separate from the business end of it, and again, you choose who your friends are, so if they are doing this to you, they probably are not a very good friend!! Guess you should have listened to Momma on that one!!

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C Mc
KJ, FL

my only complaint with what bigdog said is about part time or full time.

I'm all that he talked about, and a part timer. But my committment to excellence isn't any less than anybody's... just because I have a regular job doesn't mean I don't treat this job with sincerity

You are correct. The Kj's that treat this as self promotion or a hobby are the ones that make it difficult for the ones that understand its a business. I'm part time myself but treat it as a full time business.

how do they make it hard if you understand the business and they don't?

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Dan Bayley

Not understand the business. Understand it is a business. Big difference. The ones that treat it as self promotion care more about their personal feelings and if they lose a job start acting so unprofessional that most businesses want to avoid karaoke all together, not just that individual, due to their experience. Most take it a step further by blasting other Kj's that come in behind them. If they understood its a business and treated it that way more businesses would see the Karaoke industry as a viable marketing tool.

My 100% comment means, My karaoke business, even if I was part time, is still treated as professional as possible.   Nothing against part timers.   Just do a professional job every time, even if it's once a month.   I have no tolarence for half a** wannbes that care nothing about the quality of the karaoke and only use it as a means to make some CASH.   At the expense of other KJs.    By dragging down the price of quality with their tiny investment and "It's good enough for karaoke" attitude.    Your alttitude is determined by your attitude.

I don't try to steal jobs from friends.    I can get plenty of jobs, without it.   Others can not make that claim.

Sorry miss read it.

And if it is "good enough" for karaoke and they do get jobs well done to them.

If I can pick up a goodmans karaoke player go down my local with a handful of CD's and get a job and make some money why shouldn't I. Why spend £1000s when you don't have to. Ok bit of an extreme example but you get my point.

It's about customer satisfaction. If the customer is satisfied nothing else matters. Even though they may not know any better and the service may be crap it's about perception.

If you can get away with it well done to you. You've made fools out of those who spend a fortune to achieve the same. I think thats the reason so called "real" KJs get so annoyed! If your that much better and better value you would have no room to complain because you would get all the jobs.

It certainly annoys me that crap developers get jobs but hey, get on with it, thats business.

It's all sour grapes.

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Dan Bayley

I think it is easy - You don't try to steal a friends job. I wouldn't do that to any friend
for any job. If you do be ready to lose that friend.

If my friend lost the job and then I was asked to take it that is a different situation. If it was a really good friend I would talk to them first and let them know I heard they were let go and the owner ask me to take the job. If i thought I would lose the friend over it and I didn't want to - it's simple I wouldn't take the job. But if it was just a KJ I knew that wasn't a close friend, sorry, but that is how it goes. The job is open, if I don't take it someone else will. I would be leary of the bar owner though. Most of my KJ friends know what they are doing and if they got fired I'd want to know why.

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friends is different but thats why I avoid mixing business with pleasure.

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Dan Bayley

Great point, but I feel even a good friend that has enter into a business should understand not to mix business with friendship. If a KJ is truly your friend he/she shouldn't prevent you from gaining business even if the KJ is contacted by the company the current KJ works at. As long as it is being conducted in a professional business manner there should be no issue unless one of the KJ's start mixing friendship or personal feelings in the equation. With that being said I dont think its professional to try and gain a job by undermining the current KJ by contacting the bar.

There is a difference if the bar contacts you first.  If you are hounding the bar to steal a job, that's another matter.     Shop for your own jobs at places that don't have karaoke and want to try it.    Schlubing around someones steady job to steal customers or the actual job is pretty low.    Prove how good you are by getting you own jobs.

I know lots of KJs.   If they lose a job and I get called, they may not like it, but business is business.   Some of them, it wouldn't bother me to take.  Some it would.  But not for long.    Your friends don't pay your bills.    Survival of the fittest.   If it's not you, get more professional.    Do not blame me for your inadequacies.      Upgrade.

Prove your better by taking jobs where there is someone already doing a good job!

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Dan Bayley

Let's see, a choice between friends and supporting your family, which one would you take?

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You can be strange but not a stranger

well if it really came to that then yes but if it was that bad I'd find a better day job!

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Dan Bayley

Jobs come looking for me.  I don't have to steal one.

That's how good I am.    Something about having a very good professional reputation.  LMAO

Mention my name and other KJs shake in their boots.   They know the BIGDOG could run them out.    Professionalism, quality, talent and experience.   14 years of it.    Puppy.   Get back on the porch.