Karaoke Forums

What kind of contract are you thinking of?

If the bar owner isn't at the bar every night I work, then they don't know how much business little miss busybody drove away.      They will only look at the total sales the next day and say boy that guy isn't helping my business.    You'll get a phone call saying that karaoke isn't working out and we're going to try something else.    If you try to blame the bartender after the fact, then it will be too late.    He my be an idiot, but that isn't going to stop me from taking his money.   To the point I'm going to teach him a lesson and cut off the flow of money to my wallet, to spite him?????   His money is good until the day he lets me go.

That still didn't solve the problem of his lousy bartender.   9 out of 10 of these bar owners got in to a "cash" business.  We all know the reason.   That doesn't mean they know how to run the business.    He thinks because he has a little cutie working the bar, that the money will just flow in.    Not if she's single, not if she's on the prowl, not if she's a freakin' air head.   I very rarely see bar owners at the bar.    He's trusting the bartender with the entire operation.    Because he can't be there 24/7.     Now if he's letting them handle all of the money and doesn't know that instead of making all the money the law will allow, the bartender is actually chasing business away.   Since they have put their total trust in them, that means if they aren't making enough money, it has to be your fault for lousy entertainment.   If you never say anything to them, then it's your lousy reputation that just lost the job.

Again, the bar owner is an idiot.  He should be able to tell if the bar is running ok or not for what ever reason.

And again, if you stick around too long, then you are the idiot.

We did quit one for this very reason.   Not waiting on customers for 20 minutes, on the phone, flirting, screwing off.     3 weeks later, her boyfriend stabbed someone in the bar.    She got fired after that.  But she should have been gone way before that.   I was glad we weren't the KJs of the hour.   But it still comes down to your reputation.   Mine was spared, because I decided to bail out.    :yes:

If the bar owner isn't there, he doesn't see the people leaving, he only sees the cash register tape.   He could still think it's you, not drawing a crowd.    It can't be the good looking bartenders fault.    YOU ARE THE BIGGEST TARGET FOR HIM NOT MAKING MONEY...    He looks at the money he's paying you as a big liability.    He thinks he's not getting what he paid for.     She's good looking so he feels that she's worth it.    You will get all of the blame.   Unless you can get him to observe her bad work habits.    Now it's survival of the fittest.    Is it going to be you or her?   You are making him more money.   She is driving business away.    If she stays your reputation gets hit.  You could not draw and keep a crowd.  That WILL BE his reason for letting you go.  That IS WHAT HE WILL TELL EVERYONE.   EVEN IF YOU QUIT, IT WILL BE WHAT HE TELLS EVERYONE.    HE WILL BLAME YOU.     Not himself.    Not HIS bartender.

what I don't see being discussed is the positive aspects of followups with the bar owners. It's more than just a one-way street, and if you see problems from the start such as non-service to customers, then the time to act is NOW.

ANY kj worth his salt will have not only their opening night (and all subsequent nights) mapped out, but also the followup to the nights. Only after months and months of operations do I feel it necessary to NOT involve the bar owners if they're not there on karaoke nights.

You can sit and complain about the bartender or waitress not doing their jobs, but are you ACTING on these complaints?? I know if my livlihood was depending on it, I would be.

Granted, I've rran into the idiot owners that didn't CARE what I thought, so then it was easy enough to either walk from them, or sit on the job until another opended up.

Good points knightshow..

Susie

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My point is....
If the bar owner is too much of an idiot, or for any other reason, and dosen't know what is going on in his bar, he is not going to take your advice to heart and act on it.  IT will only casue contraversy (sp?), and you will probably get a bad rep faster by complaing about a bartender, than by ignoring the bartender, and moving on.  And if you do stay, and get fired bedasue you couldn't draw a crowd, just be honest to people and tell them what happened.  Most people will know the real reason why you got fired, and for thoes that don't just splain it to them Lucy.


I am glad to see that BIGDOG wasn't an idiot, and got out fast.

BTW...From personal experince...Worked at a bar with a bartenderr that was kinda like what you describe.  SHe was either out back snorting somthing, or in the bahroom snorting something.  On the occasions she was not drugged up, she was usually very drunk.  Many nites she would take the soda wand, and start spraying people that pissed her off.  Or she would get in yelling matches with customers.  She worked at this bar for  about 2 years, and twords the end it got REALY BAD.  In no way did it refectly bady on me.  People were smart enough to know I had no controll over the out of controll bartender.  THere were a lot of people that would not come in when she was working, wether it be a karaoke nite or not.  SHe is gone now, not casue she got fired, but she quit.  PEople are back, and everything is OK.  I left it up to the customers to complain, and it did no good, and me complaingin would have gotten the same results.  

ANd one more thign to think about.  Say you do complain to the owner about a bad bartender, and he\she get fired, oir gets a "talking" to.  Then she/she tells the other bartenders about what you did.  True it may have been warrented, but now your rep/trust with the other bartenders goes down hill.

Again, NEVER NEVER COMPLAIN about staff at a place you have a gig.  Well, unless it is something REALY SEVERE.

oh friggin' BULL DOOKEY!!

Twan, you have your opinion, and I have mine.

If someone (i.e a staff member) is costing the GIG by being a piece of crud, I'm GOING to tell the owner... ONCE. What they do with that information is up to them. You are being paid by the bar... that makes you in essence, a staff member yourself. Depending on your other skills, you may assist the bar in other areas. I know I have been added security, and backed up the bartender when he or she got into a tight spot.

Granted, I won't be a constant complainer, just drop a hint or two that the staff member MAY not have the bar's best interests in mind.

AUTOMATICALLY assuming the bar owner is an idiot is just a jaded way of looking at things. I've had some bad bar owners, and I've had some GOOD ones.

Believe me, the GOOD ones will appreciate you wanting the BAR's success to go hand-in-hand with MY success as a karaoke owner.

Now, the Owner in question may EVENTUALLY discover that their staff member is a piece of junk. The good thieves always are hard to discover. Plus they're usually charasmatic as all get out (i.e. a wolf in sheep's clothing).

TO me, bottom line, if I know something as fact (saw them stealing, see them leaning on the counter and talking, doing drugs, something SERIOUS), the followup I have with the owner will be VERY enlightening. Twan, in your description above, with a serious knowledge of what this bad bartender was doing, I personally feel you SHOULD have had at least ONE discussion with the owner. Coming from YOU, as a basically impartial observer, it has much more weight than the complaints from customers, but even THAT should have been listened to with more than a partial ear.

If the owner fails to act on it (discounts what you have to say as heresay), then yes, they're an idiot, and deserve whatever happens.

But in my opinion, NOT telling them is as grave an injustice!

From some of the comments it sounds like some have 30 new singers every night and never become friends with them.. The singers and regular crowd here have known each  other for 10-20 years.  Any problem like this It would have been discussed over over and over.  Even if I did go to a new bar (I screen bars like this beforehand) in 4-6 weeks I would have a relationship with the regular customers  or staff  where I could discuss anything with them. Granted you will run into politics or cliques but the majority (some patrons are successful business owners and are very aware) want the bar to succeed. I have worked in many jobs in various businesses and I  have yet to be associated with any business that if it had a problem a staff meeting wasnt called and ironed out. Whether formal or not I wouldnt spend any time or energy in a place that doesnt. Its not worth it  and does nothing to expand your business if in fact that is your goal..

YEs, your opinion, but from my EXPERINCE, is does no good.  If a bar owner is clueless to what is going on at his bar, then that bar owner would probably drop you in a second, if someone else came along and opffered a better price.  NOT someone I want to work for.

And, like I said before, give some credit to the people.  I belive it was said the people were comming up to the KJ and saying they would not be back becasue of the BARTENDER, not the KJ.  IF people were coming up to me and saying they, I would tell them to complain to the OWNER about it.  IF I go to any business, say a resturaunt, and get crappy service, I complain to the manager/owner.  I don't go up to the guy that is deliviring the Pepsi, and complain to him.  It is a case im missdirection.  THe KJ should direct the people to the owner.

And again, if you do complain about a bartender, you have the possibility of alienating the rest of the staff, not a risk I want to take.  IF things don't ghange, just GO elsewhere.

I only take a private party if I'm not scheduled for a bar job.
I only use a sub if I'm on vacation. I have never had a problem
with this. To me a private party is just extra money from what I already do.
I make good money at my regular shows 3 nights a week. Why would I
jeopordize a steady gig. Private parties are great, but it isn't always steady
money for me. My equipment stays in one place (no tear down or set up) and I
live down the street.

I work the same bar 3 nights a week with regulars that sing the same songs.
I take private parties when I can. Why is this bad? I guess I haven't evolved to
something else because this makes me money. I still don't understand why this
makes me less of a professional host.

As for bad bartenders - I agree how you approach it depends on your relationship
with the owner. Usually something like that works itself out. People do complain about bad service and bar owners tend to notice the bottom line. If that bartender
isn't bringing in the money she's gone no matter how pretty she is.

Drinking on the job - I don't drink, so it isn't a problem for me. I don't mind if a KJ
drinks as long as it doesn't interfer with his job.

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1.   It appears, not certain yet, that the questionable bartender could be the owners daughter.    Regardless.  She still sucks and IS chasing away paying customers.   That brings up two points.  1.  He will never fire her.    2.  He's a total idiot.

2.   Most of the time there has been a problem with other bad bartender, the owner is nowhere around to complain to them.   99% of the time the bartender will not give you their phone number.

3.   As far as playing with one speaker, If I can not get my entire system in the bar, so it can be enjoyed to it's fullest extent, then the bar is too small to draw a big enough crowd to be able to afford me.   I refuse to compromise my sound or my professional appearence by using half a system.  Very unprofessional and just not my style.   I wouldn't play with one speaker in my house, let alone ask for money to do it.

4.   The one speaker girl is finishing out the month, guess what she found this week.   Her other speaker.   SHE SUCKS.  SHE'S LAZY AND DOES NOT REPRESENT ANYTHING CLOSE TO BEING A KJ.    I WAS RIGHT ABOUT MY ASSUMPTION OF HER FROM THE BEGINNING.    SHE SUCKS.   IT PROVES MY POINT ABOUT FIRST IMPRESSIONS AND ABOUT YOUR REPUTATION.   YOU BETTER PROTECT YOURS AT ALL COST.    I NEVER SAW HER, JUST HEARD ABOUT HER AND I KNEW SHE SUCKED.     SHE DOES NOT DESERVE TO WORK, PERIOD.    THe sooner she fails, the better I'll feel.   She has no reputation but BAD.   I don't care if she sings like a bird.  I don't care if she has 5,000 followers.   I don't care if she has 100,000 songs.   SHE SUCKS.   What she has is a "Good enough for karaoke attitude."   DO NOT PUT HER IN MY CLASS.    Her class is lower than whale ca ca.

I hope I stepped on a few toes.   OOOppppps.

I agree I can't imagine only having one speaker unless the gig
was in a bathroom.  LMAO

I've done private parties in living rooms and brought 2 speakers.

I can't think of one reason why you would only have 1 speaker. I'm
assuming asking does she have a monitor would be a silly question.

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So, if 2 speakers is the way to go, then why not 4?  Wouldn't that be better.   Hell, put in 16 that must be MUCH better.

I have play at a bar that could hold the max about 40 people with ONE SPEAKER.  The place was packed, standing room only, and had a rotation of about 15 people.  It was the BEST night they ever had.  There was NO ROOM for another speaker, and quite frankly, it was not needed.  I could have hauled in a full system, 4 speakers, full rack of electronics, dual computers, and lights.  It was not needed, and would have taken up the room of about 10-15 customers.  Go ahead a refuse thoes jobs where you have to strip down, I am sure there are others out there that are williing to get paid.  BTW at the end of the night, I got my regular pay, and $50 extra from the owner for a GREAT JOB WITH ONE SPEAKER.

And what technical aspect make using one speaker bad (assumeing a MONO sound)?  Yeah I wouldn't want to play a venue that holds 500 people with one speaker, but some times it necessary for only one speaker.  It dosen't make you less professional, it just makes you smarter.  You need to learn to change and adapt to a situation and do what is right.  Your spouting off that narking off a bad bartender is the best for the BAR, well, filling up a bar with a trailer load of equipmwent, and liminting space for people, is not best for the BAR.  So wich way is it?

I'll take the reputation of complaining to the owner that I want GOOD people working for me ANY TIME than the reputation of turning a blind eye to a problem, and cursing the owner for being an idiot ANYTIME.

I have "experience" too, Twan. I've been a DJ since 1983, and a KJ since 1996. I've had my share of crappy bar owners/managers, and my share of good ones. And from the situation you've described, I'd give a feedback after EVERY show that painted the druggie/lazy barkeep in the worst kind of light... I'd request that someone else work the show nights rather than her in a heartbeat!

I stand behind my previous statement.  

So now "little miss goody karaoke" found out that her replacement has 4 speakers and now she decides it's time to use two.    LMAO   SHE SUCKS.   Sucked before, sucks now and will suck forever.  :yes:   "It's good enough for karaoke."    Yes, maybe it is little girl, buy you're not.     Now, get back with the porch puppies, you can't run with the "BIGDOGS."

Well, it it should be obvious to you that she is a bad KJ just becasue she is a bad KJ.  Or is she somehow go through some device transition and uses 2 speaks and dosen't suck anymore.  See, she sucked because she is just a BAD KJ, not becasue of speakers.

Oh yea, did an outdoor gig lasst week, and used 8 speakers.  I guess that makes me twice ad good as you and your 4 speakers.  I also knoew this kid back in the High School days that had 12 speakers in his car, all hook to the Krako stero, sured did sound like CRAP!!!!

Again, sow me the TECHNICAL aspect that shows where using 2 speakers provides a better sound.

Even when I do gigs in my bathroom, I use two speakers.

Twansenne - it was no insult to you that I said 1 speaker wasn't enough.
It sounds like you know what you are doing. I personally just can't imagine using 1 speaker. If that is all I had room for though I would do the same thing. How small was that place, yikes.  LMAO

I was trying to think how would handle Bigdogs situation with the bad bartender. It is hard to believe an owner would never come in, but I guess it's possible. I'm considering that the crowd has no one to complain to and there isn't a close enough relationship between Bigdog and the owner for him to think the guy would take him seriously or maybe it is a relative of the owners bartending.

How about if you told the bartender you were worried for them because people were complaining they weren't getting served fast enough? That you wanted to give her a heads up because people were talking about going to the owner with their complaints. That way you look like the good guy.

Or if you do go to the owner explain the reason you're telling him is because you don't know what to tell people when they complain to you and maybe it would be nice for him to stop in and see what is going on. Tell him you like the bartender as a person, but maybe she needs help if she can't keep up. Just in case it is a relative. Put it in his hands and make it sound like it is his decision. People are complaining and you don't know what to do.

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I'm still talking about looking professional and a persons reputation.

She chose to use one speaker, because she though she could get away with it.   Not because it wouldn't fit.    Good enough for me to get my money and good enough for karaoke.    Her idea of being lazy, cost her the job.   I shouldn't have to say anything more about it.   SHE SUCKS AND SHE'S LAZY.    Her choosen reputation, not mine.   Lazy wannabe.    The new competition (my replacement) is using 4 speakers, now I'll have to settle for two, too late.    Sob..... those unethical KJs.      She will never be a threat to the BIGDOG.      Is that dog po, on your shoe little girl?    :O  :whistle:  :shock:  LMAO

That reminds me, the owner went looking for a professional KJ to replace her.    Nobody went to him.    My reputation got the job.   Her lack of one, lost her job.
 
Some type of a heads up could be the answer to the bartender.     But a bad bartender sooner or later reflects on my ability to draw and keep a crowd.   They will hurt your image and reputation.   Happens too many times.  

Don't screw with my reputation Mr./Ms. Bad Bartender, I'll eat you for breakfast.