Karaoke Forums

 This statement and the responses to it are about the most rediculous Ive read yet. I have dealt with many bar owners mgrs as amusement machine and jukebox tech, league rep, sound engineer, shore patrol and various others.

 Any gig I ever had after a few months I was very close to the owner about operating practices including security, crowd control, customer relations, drug control etc... We developed a very close relationship with the bartenders bouncers mgr or anybody else concerned with operation. It is the responsibilty of all sober people including customers to take the responsibility of adults. And anybody that says the bar doesnt want non drinkers there is full of bu8llshit.

I never had a bad relationship with a bar tender we developed family type loves and after  few months or years were very tight knit and on a confidante basis. In fact the last wedding I done was for a gal that tended bar and we were a team for about a year She lives in Dallas now but I still love her to pieces. I have read the statement that one is not an employee of the bar. That is true to an extent but I always assume the responsibility of an employee for it takes a team effort to make the whole thing successful The person on this side of the bar whether host waitress etc has a better idea whats going on and can prevent trouble before it starts.

And I have done gigs in every type from the corner bar to clubs with dance floors prob bigger than the bar you are doing now..

I think THIS is an excellent example of what you are discussing Bigdog.  It's a great example because it's very specific, and perhaps easier to ask a question this way.

"In such a case, what would you do"

1)  Ask the person to please tell the bar owner, because it's not your place to. It'd
      be far more effective if they personally told him. He won't respect it coming
      from you.  

2)   Relay the info to the owner yourself, and likely have him say "Oh well",  because
      you know that if he hears it from you, he won't take it as seriously, as when he
       hears it from a disgruntled customer telling him "We won't be back"

3)    Keep your mouth shut, because you feel that if the owner hears negatives
      from you, he will start to perceive you as a "downer", a "bummer" even though
       that's far from your intent. It's just best that you aren't the bearer of negative
        news because some things just aren't your place to repeat.


My answer depends SOLELY on my relationship with the bar owner. Number 1 would
be my choice ALWAYS.





This is an excellent example of what you are speaking about because it's very specific.  My own answer would be "It completely depends on my relationship with the bar own",  In most cases, from life experience, I've learned that hearing it from
me is JUST not effective.  In fact it's often better I'm not made to be the bearer of news that starts him associating me with strong negatives.. Some things THEY must hear from the disgruntled source.  NOT US.

JMO



Quite honestly, this get's into an interesting area of business etiquette. If there is an answer, I don't know what it is !

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

People telling me they won't be back because of the lack of service, is more common that not.  Some of these people don't have common sense.   Just because the bartender is beautiful, doesn't mean she does her job right.    I would be more tempted to hire an ugly one, that could fly up and down the bar.

I refer them to the mgr. owner. I am aware whats going on but if its a major concern the owner should be aware of it before the karaoke host.

Also I will not work in a place if the mgr owner is sitting there getting drunk

   There were PLENTY of things I saw in establishments I worked for that I hated, thought were wrong, and were just plain crappy things..  Problem is, if I were to turn down jobs because of certain things such as owners, and managers getting drunk. I'd never have worked.  I never expected the most "upstanding" individuals to be those found in the restaurant or "bar" environment.  I'm not overly fond of MANY in that type business. Problem is I'm a musician. I didn't feel like standing on the corner of some street with a hurdy gurdy box, and a monkey either.  Options for work when you are a musician are quite sparse.  BARS. Places that serve alcohol.  Where people serve alcohol people get drunk.  Unfortuneately more than not it's tne employees and owners as well.

    Incidently I agree with Bigdog on this one.  People respect me ALOT more if I DO NOT drink at all while they pay me to furnish them with a service. WHether they choose to drink themselves doesn't matter, if THEY are paying me, I'm on the clock, just like a waiter, waitress, or bartender, and yes, even THEY drink, however if I am a private businessman furnishing a service to somebody else, I take FAR more pride in *MY* job, than when I was a waiter, or waitress.. Like Bigdog said, word of mouth matters. If somebody fires me because of some unrelated matter, I don't want them to turn around, and also tell others in a business area I need jobs in
"Kappy also drank on the job".  It DOESN'T look good !

    I'll be honest, If I was a bar owner, and I payed somebody the money some of you get per hour, My feelings would be,  "If you need to alter your state of consciousness, take a pill, or do something that I don't know about, because EVEN if I pay you only $15 an hour, I want you to do the best job you can, and also use the best judgment you have."  It's the SECOND area I'd worry about assuming  you drank, yes, I know we performers sometimes need, and even do spectacular jobs after "a few". As an entertainer we entertain sober people, drinking people, and sometimes have to deal with issues.  The thing is we must deal with people that aren't always the easiest to get along with on a professional mature level.  I would NOT want my entertainer drinking and dealing with a high volume of my customers. I just wouldn't trust that situation.

    Construction workers, grounds workers I usually offer a beer or two. A performer at a wedding MIGHT be a slightly different situation in terms of offering him/her a drink, it happens ALL the time. but a wedding is still a different setting than a high volume bar.. It all depends... As the entertainer I would not ASK for a drink. or noticeably drink, or be caught smelling of alcohol, or sweating it. If somebody offered me a drink at a wedding I might accept ONE... maybe two.. At a bar, I wouldn't... It's a different situation, with potentially more trouble regarding "dealing" with people.

JMO

Quite simply, I was brought up with the ethic that it's VERY disrespectful to "drink" when somebody is paying you to provide them with a service..  (well there was that exception of the stud service when I was hired out to gorgeous female super models, but I won't get into that, sure I had a couple at the time )

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Someone will always talk about your reputation.   Before you get the job and long after you're gone.   It's the only thing you have as a business person.   I want mine to be as good as possible and I don't need a jerk bartender messing with it.

I don't like to see the owners getting drunk.   Now they are messing with their reputation.     It's the owners job to be sociable, not wiped out.    

With the bad bartenders, most of the time the owner isn't in the bar to see the lack of service.   They are at home.   The bad bartender is the only one there.  So they can make all of the tips.    Only if you can handle it.    Most can't.   The bar owner will see the money in the register.   But what they don't see, is how much money could have been in the register had So & So actually waited on more people.

Again, if the bar owner dosen't know what is going on, he/she is an idiot, and probably not someone I would want to work for considering they are an idiot.  They probably would toss you out the door in a split second if some other KJ came along and offered a cheaper price.

I still say it is not MY position to tell the bar oner how to run his business.  If how he is running his business, is hurting my reputation....welll....Buh Bye.

And lets give some credit to the customers.  If someone thinks I am a crap KJ, becasue it took the bartender 5 mins to get them a drink.....DUH, not a person I am conserned about anyway.  And let's not forget I working in one on the bigest dives anywhere.  The owner is usuallly there getting drunk, a former bartender used to sell crank.  There are people constantly going out back to "smoke", usually a good fight at least once a month, and just a nasty, stinky, dirty bar.  BUT DAMN IT IS FUN SOMETIMES.

It has nothing to do with being a crap KJ.  It has to do with people not coming back to your karaoke, because they can not get waited on by the bartender.   They go to some other bar to have fun and spend money.   You used all your talent to get them to come to your karaoke, but the idiot bartender killed them.   So now your reputation gets damaged.     I don't go to So & Sos for karaoke, because I can't get waited on at "X" bar.   YOU SUFFER.    The crowds get smaller.    You look like a jerk that can't keep a crowd.   How is that not harming your reputation?   You're the KJ on duty, when they mouth off about 'X" bars lousy service.     They will say "I quit going to [highlight=crimson]karaoke[/highlight] night at 'X" bar.   No service."    So then other people won't be coming either.    It doesn't matter what the reason is when you get fired because the people quit coming.   The bar owner will say I quit karaoke because no one was coming.    Who's the KJ that lost the job?   The word spreads that [highlight=crimson]you[/highlight] lost the karaoke job at 'X" bar, no crowd.   I'm not going to hire them, they lost the job at "X" bar, they couldn't keep the crowd.   Why do I want them?   I'll get a good KJ.   They hire your competition and your reputation took a hit.     All because of a stupid bartender.     Don't think it happens?     Guess again.

This is what ALL the locals bars here are like. It's unfortunate, it sucks big time, but that's the way it is. ALL businesses have to put up with this regardless of what they are. It's just the nature of business. The ART of business, is how good you are at PR and damage control.

So far, I'm not great at it, but I am improving. I don't play the bars here as I have been bad mouthed by the only other KJ in town. SO, I'm letting them put up with her shows in the bars and loosing most of the singers. I'm only doing community events. The people still know I'm around, and they come to these events to see me. The bar owners Are starting to hear about me.

The old adage of " It takes money to make money " keeps popping up. Fortunately, I have the finances to be able to afford to sit back and wait till there has been enough singers ask the bars to get me in. And they are asking for me. Her shows are set to a small audiance of mostly her friends and family. If they don't know her personaly, they don't stay. The 3 most heard comments about her show are, " She didn't have anything I could sing."  and " She mixes the sound so you can hear her friends, but not peope she doesn't know. "  and " She sings at least a part of EVERY song, and has her mic way to loud and drowns out the singer lots." Well, it's her funeral.. Oops. Sorry, that's my other job speaking....

_________________
"Real life doesn't start untill the music plays." LSK.

No guesses No therorys No surmisals. Real life outcome.  The bartender is gone... The customers who have been there for years is still there The singers are still there We are still there I am trying to imagine a bar where the singers and customers dont know the mgr or owner Or a mgr that isnt aware of whats going on with their bartender(s) at all times...

_________________
Join The Karaokle Singers Social Network. Upload Your Music!!

You give bar owners too much credit for being smart.   They aren't.  I've evidenced it lots of times.    If I didn't work for idiot bar owners, I'd be staying home every night.  So I have to compromise myself to work steady.   They all suck.   Just because you have the money to own a business, doesn't mean you know how to run a business.

As far as being friendly with the bartender, doesn't mean they do their job right.

That is why we had extensive interviews with owners mgrs before contracting I actually walked out on a few interviews especially with those that were not familiar with karaoke or bar management. Most of these problems should be ironed out before hand.

There are certain procedures that are learned after years of experience. When I setup in a new bar I know where the ckt breakers are I know what condition the wiring ground system is I am well aquainted with staff We know mutually what is expected of each other as far as announcements handling last call etc  

I have setup in moose halls, legions, motel reception rooms, lakes, pastures, and some I dont remember When we left it was after compliments We entered with a handshake we left with a handshake. And in our hayday I was too busy doing it to be posting on a forum..

_________________
Join The Karaokle Singers Social Network. Upload Your Music!!

In my real life experience, the bar owner hires who she/he believes are competent employees.  Sometimes they are capable, sometimes not.  Sometimes the bar owner does not know there is a problem because no one tells them....  

When we hear complaints about the service we instruct them to call the owner as there is nothing we can do about it and it won't get fixed unless the owner is made aware of the situation.  The customer seldom follows through.

We believe the bar staff's actions, good or bad, reflect on us and vice versa.  We do our best to give a positive reflection on the bar staff and expect they do the same for us.  We have quit one bar because of a bartender and  when notifying the bar owner that we were quitting and the reason for it he asked us to do another of his clubs.  We knew of the club and declined.  In another club we notified the bar owner that if a certain bartender was working on karaoke night to please notify us in advance and we would send a sub, we explained our reasons and the bartender did not work on karaoke night anymore - many months later the bartender was eventually fired.

In short, I do believe the reputation of a bar and it's owner/manager/staff does reflect on the karaoke company and vice versa.  I also know, from my own experience, that customers won't always notify the bar owner/manager re: problems with staff.

Susie

_________________
You do it in the shower,
you do it in the car,
Ccome do it with us,
and be a star!!!!

Karaoke with Full House Entertainment

[scroll]Just because I have a short attention span doesn't mean...... [/scroll]

In restaurants, it is the customer saying nothing that we have the most to fear. They will go home and never come back plus they will recomend to their friends to avoid my place. That should have been past tense but I'm sure it still applies.

Yep Chuck, many people don't want to complain to the owner/manager..  The reverse is also true, many won't leave positive feedback to the owner/manager.

Susie

_________________
You do it in the shower,
you do it in the car,
Ccome do it with us,
and be a star!!!!

Karaoke with Full House Entertainment

[scroll]Just because I have a short attention span doesn't mean...... [/scroll]

I dont know guess its different here... We have regulars that are very familiar with the bar operation. If a new bartender comes in they are spotted if they sho rt change or cop any till. If their boyfriend is dealing drugs out in the parking lot they are gone now.  I went into the horse one nite sat down and waited about 5 min for a drink still didnt get it .. Lanny was setting up and I walked over and rolled my eyes He said she wont last long they are griping about her already.

With the laws now any bar owner better know whats going on in their bar. This includes the staff Here it doesnt take much to shut a bar down for 10 days or so. a lawsuit will shut it down big time.  Wont work there....

_________________
Join The Karaokle Singers Social Network. Upload Your Music!!

My experience might be regional. I know people here are tought "If you have nothing good to say, then say nothing." They find other ways to express their dislike and it evolves to lost business.

That sums up what has been my experience.

Susie

_________________
You do it in the shower,
you do it in the car,
Ccome do it with us,
and be a star!!!!

Karaoke with Full House Entertainment

[scroll]Just because I have a short attention span doesn't mean...... [/scroll]

Susie....    Not everyone is on the ball, including KJs.   It's happened to me, too many times.   Anyone that thinks a bad bartender isn't hurting their reputation is wrong.    That kills a crowd as fast as raising the drink prices 75. cents, or you screwing with the rotation.    Same penalty to pay.    Sooner or later you lose your job.    Lack of a crowd.    Bad service on my part or theirs, equals the same out come.

Sorry for the big QUOTE, but it is still flawed. Again the bar owner is an idiot.  If he/she came up to me saying that I am letting you go becasue you can't draw a crpwd, that is a different story.  The I would repond that X bartender is driving customers away and if you don't belive me ask this person (somene who left casue of the bartender).  Anyway, if you let it get to that point you are the idiot.  If you see your numbers falling off becasue of bad bartenders, then tell the owner Buh Bye.  Again, if the bar owner is not seeing a loss in money and for what reason, he/she is an idiot.  And if you stick around too long, then you are the idiot.