Karaoke Forums

You seem to have a decent plan to play it safe, though you are kinda setting yourself up to fail.

It is like deciding you want to own an Outback Steakhouse and buying a used hotdog stand to "try out the business." You will be getting the lowest of the low taste of something vaguely similar to the restuarant business, but it really can't compare in the least to owning your own restaurant in the grand scheme of things.

I think an even better way to "get your feet wet" and figure out if this business is for you before you make the investment is the way that about 75% of the KJs on this board got into this business, and it is this:

Start going to your local karaoke bar religiously. Befriend the karaoke KJ. Tell him/her that you want to learn how to host a karaoke show and ask if you can "apprentice" with them. Basically, tell them that you will help them out for free if they will show you the basics of connecting all the equipment, mixing music, the technical aspects of running a show, etc. While you are at it, you will also learn a ton about controlling the audience, rotations, etc.. Don't half-(@$%&#!) it either. Be there to help the KJ set up when they first arrive and be there to help them break it all down at the end of the night. It should only take you about 8-10 shows to really know what you're doing, and that is far more valuable than f'n around with a cheapy system at house parties for a few months.

You may also try to get part-time employment for a local KJ/DJ agency, in which case you can learn all of this and get paid for it. If you take to it all and enjoy it, THEN you can invest in your own system and go out on your own. Make sure you respect those who got you there, though, and don't go stealing gigs or undercutting your old teacher or agency!!

That's a much more logical path to take if you want to learn the business to see if it is for you without investing a bunch of $$$ upfront!!

_________________
C Mc
KJ, FL

Now you know.....and knowing's half the battle  :hi5:

_________________
C Mc
KJ, FL

Exactly, if that's the goal you are setting yourself for to 'start out' in the crappier lower pay jobs - which is almost a guarantee that's all you would get with the low budget (even $1000), you are going to be giving yourself a low reputation right off the bat.  I understand about getting your feet wet as well, I did it myself.  My initial budget for my system alone was aprox $1000 (15 years ago), I bought used pieces mainly from pawn shops & people I knew.  Then I laid out another $1500 for music (again 15 years ago, all laser discs @ $120 a pop).  Today I wouldn't attempt to 'get my feet wet' for less than $5000 for system & music.  Ok, maybe a little less if you can find a good but used system.  Don't just get into it to do karaoke, learn the ropes first - like Topher suggested, get in good with a local bar first & see if they will hire you so you can learn about it - before you buy anything.  
Karaoke is a job, people get into it for the wrong reasons, don't fall into that catagory.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I agree somewhat, but you are forgetting one thing.  I want a home system anyway.  I like this stuff no matter if I am going to do it proffesional or not.  Can you take a used hotdog stand home and have fun with it?  Do people invite their friends over for "homestyle hotdog standing?"    I thought is was funny anyway!

I may try to go hang with the KJs.  That is a great idea.  But I want a decent setup for Karaoke at home, so why not buy some ok stuff and have some fun?  And, I have helper-DJ'ed before with DJ amaze in Newark DE.  It was cool. Never have KJ'ed except for homestyle stuff. But, do you really think I am setting myself up for failure if I buy some OK stuff to have fun with?  

My buddy greg spent 400 bucks on a used mixer and had a great time with it, made about 1000 bucks while in college doing college parties and he loved it.

What about the part where I can't sing very well?  Do you think I will be ok?  :O  

Maybe you are saying if I buy below average stuff I will not have a good experience with a gig since my stuff sucks and I will get a bad taste in my mouth for KJ'ing?

I appreciate all this advice, it may save me thousands of dollars and alot of heartache.  This thread would be good for many newbies to think about.  keep it coming if you don't mind.  This is good stuff.

i didn't read your post lonman before I reposted for topher.  what do you mean "get into it for the wrong reasons"?  I want to do this for fun, not to make money.  Money would come later if I really liked it.  At least that is what I'm thinking now.  Maybe I should change my nickname from hamsamich to "GhettoStyle"!  

Let me know what up lonman, I am interested.

Depends on the type of dogs, i'd go  :drool:



A system like outlined earlier would probably be fine for small private homestyle parties, not for clubs.



Kj's don't have to know how to sing - it helps, but if you have a personality that can keep the crowd entertained & run a fair rotation & mix a good sound, singing isn't that big of deal.



All i'm saying is you aren't going to gain any kind of following from singers that want to sing on better equipment.  This in turn will determine your pay from a club which you already stated wanted to start in small clubs, they aren't going to pay peanuts to begin with & once you get that reputation for low quality & bars find out what you charge (& they will), then you will never be able to get anymore for a pay in clubs.



Aw, this is what we live for.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

If you want some home stuff anyway, go for it. In that case, you don't need to spend $1000 to get something suitable for home use for you and a few friends. I would recommend just buying a decent 1-tray player that has mic inputs and hooking it up directly to your home stereo and TV. You can also incorporate this player into a pro system later as your first player or a backup player, etc.. A decent player will only run you $150-300.

As far as the singing thing, I find that there is pretty much a 50/50 split on this board and most bars I go to as far as the KJ being able to sing, so that is not a big deal. 99% of the time, the crowd is there TO sing, and not to hear the KJ sing!!

I think karaoke patrons are first and foremost attention cravers, and they don't want to be entertained as much as they want to get up there themselves and be hard and looked at. Have their 3 minutes in the spotlight.

Even those of us KJs that are singers usually will only sing once MAYBE twice during a show. The key to your show if you are NOT a singer will be to build a strong base of regulars who will show up to your show right when it starts or earlier. That way, you have singers already lined up once the system is ready to go and you won't have to sing to let the crowd know it is karaoke time and get them interested in taking a look at the books!! I find it takes about 3-4 regulars that will always be there at the start of the show and you KNOW will keep pumping in songs to avoid gaps in the show (gaps that some KJs will fill by singing themselves).

_________________
C Mc
KJ, FL

My opinion only, but this has been discussed before, for fun is the wrong reason.  What this does is give karaoke a reputation that it's a cheap form of business & not really taken seriously.  Too many people get into it 'for fun' which lowers the cost of the revenue that can be made in actuality for the overall scale (since they 'don't need the money').  Then these businesses decide that it is actually work & get out of it already leaving the bad taste & low prices in effect for the more quality comapnies.  
Don't mean to sound bitter about this, but i've seen it happen too much around here.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I just feel (again, my opinion) is that most that get into it for fun, do not charge what should be standard scale, generally buy cheaper stuff & don't take the job as seriously as someone that is dedicated to the job, takes the time & means to make the job a better experience for the singers & charges accordingly not cheapening the field.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Just over your budget but is a increment in quality: from Yamaha

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/StagePas300/

_________________
I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

ok, I'm going to get the mics from lonman, I'm gonna get the 356 core pac.  they didn't totally turn me on but I'm sure someone will love them.  I love Back in the USSR myself.  now, about the music makers.  I liked the Europower mixer ALOT, but it isn't available until october.   I did like the price on the soundtech but I don't mind springing for the Yamahas if you guys think it is a good idea.

Do you guys think the Yamaha setup will be way better than the soundtech for doulble the $$$$?  If so, I'll spring.

Do you think that Yamaha setup is the best way to spend that 600 bucks?  What will I be missing from a better system?  You guys do me a favor and let me know If this is it, please let me know if this ain't right you'd better let me know.  no, seriously, I'm going to buy something soon, and right now I'm leaning to the Yamahas.  please chime in and give me your blessings.

Like we discussed before, this stuff ain't the best, but it will be fun and get me started!  To tell you the truth, I'm looking at this stuff and my mouth is watering, oh yeah.  But from you expoits point of view, this stuff could be decent backup stuff if I ever get serious, right?  thanks yall!  jim

if anybody knows a better way to spend the $$$ as laid out above don't hesitate!!!

A rew more chose from zZound.
http://www.zzounds.com/cat--PA-Systems--2746

When you make a chose just make sure the mixer have effect for the vocal.

_________________
I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

the more we talk, the more money I want to spend.
I like the yamaha, and the deluxe fender.  i like a couple of the peavey set-ups

http://www.zzounds.com/item--FEN692005003  :yum:

http://www.zzounds.com/item--ZZOPA1    

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/StagePas300/  :D  

what kinda base comes outta these things?  I don't have experience with PA units

I'm thinking the peavey stuff will sound the best...but not sure.

I like the fender setup.  Does anyone know if the PD sounds better than the P series for the Fender Passport?

I bet the peavey/behr sounds good but I'd rather go with the more compact fender so far.  Anybody know how these things sound compared to each other?

If I knew the Peavy/Behr sounded much better than the fender or yamaha, that is the one I would get I think.

**Questions**

If I go with the fender, is PD better than P?

Does Peavey/Behr sound way better than the Yam/Fender?

Does the Yamaha sound signifigantly better than the Fender?

What kind of base am I giving up by going with the smaller more portable units?  :dancin:

Is the behr mixer better with better options than the other 2?

I am partial to Yamaha equipment myself, but that one just isn't enough for anything other than home use.  Also remember that you still have to purchase a CDG player ($150-300), mics ($50-150), mic stands ($30-50), cables ($30-100), speakers stands ($60-100), and music ($500-1000 for a suitable bar selection).

For the $$, you can do much better than that particular Yamaha system. Think of it this way, if you buy that Yamaha 150 watt powered mixer with 8" speakers, you will need to replace the entire thing to do a bar show. 150 watts just won't cut it in anything but a coffeehouse and 8" woofers won't put out any bass.

For around $600, here's a much better system:

2 Behinger E1220 PA Speakers (12 inch, 400 watts) $150 each ($300 total)

http://www.americanmusical.com/item--i- ... 6_386.html

Samson XM410 Powered Mixer $250

http://www.americanmusical.com/item--i- ... 9_398.html

BBE 362 Sonic Maximizer $100

http://www.americanmusical.com/item--i- ... 06_87.html

The advantages to this system are:

#1: It is a passable bar karaoke system. Not great, but passable. You could get your foot in the door with this.

#2: The mixing amp is good enough that you could later upgrade the speakers, stick with the same amp, and upgrade your quality quite a bit. The next step would then be moving to separate mixer and amp once you have higher quality speakers, but you could do all of this in steps as the $$ comes in.

The key to this system is the BBE Sonic Maximizer. Ask anyone that has one and they'll tell you it is the single biggest improvement to their PA sound that they ever purchased, and it is only $100. It will make your system sound 100% better than it does without it. The BBE itself basically maximizes the lows and highs of your speakers and amp through an algorythm that basically auto-EQs your system for maximum low and high output.

That's $650 for the main system, and about as good as I could pull together for around that price point. Again, this is a PASSABLE bar rig, but is still below average.

_________________
C Mc
KJ, FL

Here is the system I first started out with when I started KJing:

http://www.guitarcenter.com/shop/produc ... sku=630197

I also had the BBE Sonic Maximizer I spoke of in my last post and a JVC Three-tray CDG player. About 6 months after I started, I upgraded to Yamaha S115V speakers and made the old S112Vs monitor speakers (with a separate Samson Servo amp).

About 3 months after that I upgraded to a separate amp and mixer, a Numark 25G player, and rackmounted everything. About 5 months ago I added a powered sub.

_________________
C Mc
KJ, FL

what about the  http://www.zzounds.com/item--ZZOPA1   ???

this has mics and all the stuff you said I would need.  the 10 inch speakers might provide OK base?  plus I have one below average mic and a really $hitty one.

it is a good bit cheaper than the Yamaha, of course without the yamaha name.

maybe it isn't as good?....

I could get this one with the maximizer.  I like the idea of getting a maximizer.  sounds like alot of bang for your buck.

I already have a cdg player, my laptop.  but I probably would get another as a backup.  I don't know if the laptop will sound as good as a decent cdg player thou.  maybe I should get a cdg and think of my laptop as the backup.....like the mk22 by RSQ maybe?  it is cheap and RSQ seems to be well thought of.  

I just did a little "gig" last night with some friends (8 people) and the laptop had to be rebooted once after about 15 songs and it was fairly slow reading the CDGs.  annoying and makes me want something that reads much faster.....unless saving to my hard drive makes it faster....

http://cgi.ebay.com/KARAOKE-SYSTEM-Complete-Professional-w-Music-MORE_W0QQitemZ110012848805QQihZ001QQcategoryZ14989QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

check this out.  speakers are just too big for me.  but pretty cool I guess if you could get it for like 600 bucks.  I'd rather have better named speaker though.

Yeah, that Peavy system isn't bad. Considering that is comes with all the wires and stands, it is a better deal than the suggestion I gave. Again, it'll get you in the door, but won't keep you there.

You are not going to get GOOD bass out of anything less than a 15" woofer, which is why you'll again want to be upgrading these speakers when you get the chance if you get a gig. Also, I do strongly recommend the BBE 362 with any system you get!!

_________________
C Mc
KJ, FL

I'm understanding about getting you in the door, but......

what if I bought that peavey system + the maximizer, then eventually bought a subwoofer?

this system seems like one that could be upgraded without losing too much money from replacement/upgrades.

just a guess, but wouldn't one subwoofer provide good base for small to medium venue?

how do you feel about RSQ stuff?

Bottom line, with the budget you outlined, bass isn't going to be a factor, 8", 10", 12" in pro situations are really designed to be no more than midrange speakers - not to say they can't provide bass in VERY small tight loactations, but anything bigger than that the bass is going to be VERY lacking & even a processor like the BBE isn't going to help much & you could actually end up harming the speakers because you are going to be turning the bass up on it to compensate for the lack of & the speakers aren't going to be able to handle what they weren't meant to reproduce.  Now if you added a sub with them, then yes the bass would be fine.

Take a look at this, a little over you $500 budget howver, but is compact enough, will sound great in clubs & home parties & won't give you a reputation of cheap sound.
B-52 Matrix 1000
http://www.pssl.com/bitemdetail.tpl~waG ... 00-V2%2001
This is a 3 piece POWERED speaker system with a sub & 2 satellites.  $800

http://www.pssl.com/bitemdetail.tpl~waGroup1datarq~[waGroup1datarq]~eqint_KeyIDdata~40584~itemNumber~[item_number]~UID~2006010316461643~disp_IMG~Y~catgroup~%5BcatGroup%5D
Mixer  $90

Then the mics I recommened earlier.  This system with your laptop as the player will be more than adequate for most gigs, isn't too big & won't BREAK the bank, true it's a little over what you wanted to spend, but honestly, what you wanted to spend isn't going to get you anything close to good sound!

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!