Karaoke Forums

Because as it has been said ad nauseum, IT IS ILLEGAL.   I am trained in high speed pursuit driving and can drive quite safely at those speeds, so why can't I drive at those speeds everyday.  It's ILLEGAL.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Well, I've used a laptop for a little over 3 years now.  And I wish they would take someone to court that uses one legitimately.  It might probably put this all to rest.  My guess to why they haven't is because they know it would probably not fly with a jury when the accused brings in all those hundreds if not 1,000's of original discs and piles them on the front table.  

It would probably be something very similar to the old Christmas movie, "Miracle on 47th Street."  The one where all the letters to Santa are dumped in front of the judge.

Another reason I don't think the companies are going to take the legititane KJ to court is because by now there are too many laptop users out there who are continueing to make up a large portion of their sales.  I know how much I spend in a years time and I figure you multiply that by a few more figures and it's a whole lot of money.

Kelly

Yep the same old 3 posters keep harping on their bandwagon. If you think it is ILLEGAL...... Don't use it. Personaly I am tired of hauling 2500+ cdg's around when there is a more modern alternative. This is called Modernization and as technologies move forward, I'm sure one day they will have a little box the size of an ipod you can load 25,000 disks onto and Play karaoke.

But some Kj's will still be carrying around the old laserdisks and players in their highspeed Karaokemobile. Say hi to Jake for me!!!!

I say, I say, I say,.......... I'm in hot pursuit!!!!!!!

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I'm Not Dead yet...... But every day Im getting Closer !

 Lets say you have 1000 cdg's  that you have bought and for ex say $20 per. Due to marketing tecniques you have 2 songs per cd that will be used and the other 13 will never be used. Your viable library is about 2000 songs. And you are packing around almost $17000 in worthless music..  How much is it going to be next year?

You can argue legalities all you want but until the cd manus adapt to technological advances and change to a fairer marketing scheme there will be more and more pirating The economic feasibilty of doing karaoke now is almost non-existent and with the economy and increasing cost of other things it is becoming harder and harder...

Bust KJ's?  They have already stifled a fledgling industry and instead of growing it is decreasing. The attitude was karaoke is only a passing fad so lets make it now. Nobody tried to streamline it and help their customers  All they could do was threaten the public with lawsuits.

My car is designed to go at over 100 mph.  The technology is there and I have the skill.  On an open highway, what do you think will happen if I travel at 100 mph in my technologically advanced vehicle?

Let's hear some more rationalization.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Sorry timberlea, I don't see ANY rationalization in that.  That's like saying I have the skill to kill someone with a pistol so it should be alright. Driving that fast somebody's gonna get hurt.    

The karaoke companies are not going to get hurt by me playing my music on my laptop.  One, I own all the originals. Two, I don't make copies for anyone.  And 3 they are going to keep making money because I am going to keep buying discs.

They will get hurt if the leagl KJ who use laptops stop buying discs.  And there are becoming more and more of us all the time.

Like a few other subjects on this site;  I'm through discussing it.  It's beating a dead horse.  You're most entitled to your opinion.  And I to mine.  I have personally listened to some CEO with disc companies.  Regardless what the actual law states they are not concerned about the "legal KJ."  It's the folks who are working shows with copies and selling copies to other folks.  These are the folks that are hurting them.

That law is very simialr to the multitude of laws that are still on the books in THIS country that  have not been re-written, but are so outdated that the courts, city, state and federal have opted not to even attempt to inforce.  

You along with other who don't use a laptop don't have to worry about it.  In fact it's the ones who still use discs that I find have the most problem with this issue.

I do understand the Canadian  laws regarding this are much stricter there than here in the USA.

One more karaoke issue I am through taking part in.

Kelly

Pablo.  If everyone so-far (in here) said it was "legal", would that cover you, or insure you that it was legal ?  Honestly,  for legal advice, consult with your atty in real.  While you might be getting correct info, there MIGHT be something some are overlooking..  For Endodontist work, Divorce atty's, Neuro-surgeons, and > business legal advice.. there are better places to inquire in real... IMO...


JMO..

If everyone is wrong, or even correct, you have no recourse anyway  :)

Patent or Copyright Atty know's more about the little intricacies of this stuff...SOMETIMES !  (It's a tough area)..
(That is if an atty tells you to even concern yourself over it, but at least than you have tangible recourse, you have a name, and credentials.. at that point you'll still need money to pay him)

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

And Canada has just re-vamped it's Copyright laws and guess what copying for personal uses is allowed, professional use is not.  During the revamping, copying and other technologies were all in "operation" for the lack of a better word.  One would think if one to one copying was ok for professional use, they would have inserted it at that time.  But they didn't.  Why not?

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You can be strange but not a stranger

I Don't see the problem here. rent a racetrack, and drive the sucker as fast as you want to, or at least untill you filp it.

Driving on the highway is a totally different rationalle. As you are then Infringing on the rights of others who want to live. Aparrently you are a cop, and probably drive the speed you want to anyhow. Whats the diff. (just egging you on.....)

What's this got to do with Karaoke anyhow?

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I'm Not Dead yet...... But every day Im getting Closer !

You just said it, infringing on the rights of others, In this case the manufacturers and the copyright holders.  The give permission for personal use only which is a nice thing, however in a professional situation you are being paid.  So if you make a copy of someone's work, why shouldn't they be compensated for that copy.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Oh please!

Just do it, it makes sence I'd love to see them take anyone to court for it.

I'd have them for wasting time and money. It's just a nonse issue.
you still pay for the discs you are just playing them in a different way.
Even if it is techincally illegal to do this (which I dont know that it is) there is no revenue loss so it's not in their interest to invest time and effort chasing you.

just ignore the technophobes they feel threatened that they can't compete in this technologically advancing field. I see it all the time workin in I.T. People object to silly things for the most obsurd reasons because it's threatinging their traditional ways of working. If they could get to grips with using a laptop and use it for a month then had the choice to go back to lugging truck loads of cases around I doubt anyone with half a brain would go back. but then like I said people do sometimes have the most obsurd reasons.

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Dan Bayley

Yes, but in a Professional situation, ascap, and bmi are also being paid to compensate the artists for their contributions.

Look at it this way. You pay $20.00 for a cdg to use to make a living as a Kj. Whether you play it via computer or player, it makes no difference you are playing a file you bought to use for that purpose. Aside for paying a premium price for the Cdg, Ascap, and Bmi are also collecting again for the performance. The Poor artist isnt loosing out on anything. I only wish I could make as much playing Karaoke as he did from one song.

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I'm Not Dead yet...... But every day Im getting Closer !

No, you have two copies, an original and a copy.  The copyright holder is entitled to his or her royalty on both.  This has nothing to do with technology, it has to do with proper compensation.

It doesn't matter if ASCAP or BMI are collecting money.  Their money is for public performance, not sales, two different animals.

Make as many copies as you want, just pay the copyright holder for each copy.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

So, by your thinking if I load it on the laptop, and destroy the original. Then I am playing a file I legally bought ?

Or is it your contention, that you can never play a file in public legally? You know a lot of them have on the label "not to be used in Public performance"

You can't have it both ways. Black, or white which is it?

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I'm Not Dead yet...... But every day Im getting Closer !

Then The requirement has been met if ascap got paid. Remember ascap must be paid whether you perform the song, or play it. So when you perform the song how does the artist get paid. This is a contridiction.

If playing a Karaoke disk is illegal on a computer........ then it would follow if you played it on a plain cd player it would be illegal, because it isnt a karaoke player. also if you play it in your car stereo you are illegal.

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I'm Not Dead yet...... But every day Im getting Closer !

Technically if you buy the disc, it doesn't give you the right to play it in a public place.  You don't actually OWN the music & legally can't say what you can & can't do with it.  The cdg that is purchased - nothing goes to the performer/artist at this point, this royalty goes to the manufacturer of the cdg.  The artists get their performance royalties once this disc is played in public in a properly licensed (ascap/bmi/etc) venue.  These fees go to the artists - PROVIDED these fees are being paid by the club - see in discussion forum about NY Nightclub in battle with ASCAP for not paying their fees.
Now as far as format shifting goes, it is technically illegal, however I feel as many others that if you actually purchased the orginal disc & it isn't being used for more than the 1 system it was originally intended (no multi rigging), then I don't have a problem with it - not that it makes it right.  If you buy the discs & use them for more than 1 system, then you are becoming pretty much scum.  And even worse if you are a downloader - NO paying for anything.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

The publishers fees are basically blanket fees, they will cover the music they represent.  Since there are only a couple ascap/bmi/sesac, paying the fees to each will cover all music played.  

PLAYING a karaoke disc on a computer is not illegal, 'transferring' the data is - technically.  Playing it in a cdg player (with graphics) is even different from playing it it in a standard cd player (no lyrics displayed), but if they are played in any venue, then the venue would still need to cover the publishing fees.  Karaoke is an added expense due to the lyrics being displayed.
Playing in your car stereo is not technically a public performance & this is what the disc was always intended for originally - private use.  If you took that disc and played in a public park, then it changes again & now is a public performance & yes you would need to have a performance license to do that - now would anyone really be checking for these type of events - probably not.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I've always wondered, do karaoke manufacturers pay royalties to the songwriters of these songs they produce???? or to the artists?? or the record labels?
Just curious...

If they are legal they don't pay publisher fees, they pay for copyright fees.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

If someone is sued for using a computer for KJing, and having all the original discs, what are they going to be sued for?  No one has lost any money.  

I belive there is a stipulation in copyright law that allows format shifting on outdated media.  Such as if you have an old 8-track, you can "upgrade" it to someting better (cassette tape, cd, mp3, ect...)  without being in violation of copyright law.  Not sure if this applies to "PRO" use, but I would think it would.


BUt to try to end tis thread.....
Yes at this moment in time, it is illegal, and probably will be for some time.  Untill it is tested in court, or the law changes, we can argue ad nauseum about it.  I highly doubt that SC is going to sue anyone for buying their discs, and converting them to laptop use.  It is a matter of ecnomics, why would they want to loose a PAYING customer?