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That is what we try to do for major contest finals, no one associated with the bar.  Even got a sound engineer/producer (friend) from a local recording studio with a plug as well.  Also try college radio stations.

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Yeah, not alot of those kinds of people in this town. They could be found I guess. But I think one big problem too.... I'm not so certain these KJ's have ever done a contest either. They did not start this.... I think the fair planned it, and Denny's was nominated, since it's the main karaoke place here. It's also sponsored by another business in town. I dunno if these guys running the show know what they're doing.

They didn't even have certain judges lined up in time before the contest. They pretty much have switched to "ask three people in the crowd who wont be joining the contest to judge each night". I mean- each night as in, every wednesday & saturday are different judges, picked from the crowd. I think Odie was gonna do it every time, but he backed out. (for reasons he explained... he's uh, got the hots for just about all the gals at Denny's)  LMAO

~Okay, Odie, sorry, just having a bit a fun~


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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

There's always someone that can be found, it's just a matter of looking.  As for experience, bring them to this site & they can get some education!!

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Actually, this Canby contest was not thought out well enough from the start.  Rich, one of the head KJ's just found a set of rules off of the internet that some other group in some other state used once.  No real rhyme or reason behind it all.  He tried to get the same judges to rule for each night and that idea worked for the first two nights only, then I quit, then my replacement quit, then one other guy decided he couldn't do it every time either, blah blah blah.  The whole contest from start to finish is too long and drawn out for any set of judges around here. But the bar owner wants people to keep coming out and participating, observing and spending money.  So far it has worked for him just fine.  As Bigdog points out though, it may backfire in the end.  We'll see!!!

Only the one's who are good singers!!! At least you're finally around more often.
From that standpoint, let's keep the contest going all year!

Oh, I know they could be found if someone tried hard enough. If you could find someone who wasn't too awfully biased on one genre of music. Canby tends to lean quite heavily towards county music, in the karaoke world. Heck, most live music that plays around here as well. You get your share of rockers, but alot of Gretchen-wannabes, hahaha.... But honestly, the girl I'm rooting for to win (well she's one of two I'd like to see make it) she sings alot of pop music.

But, I guess you could come up with judges who have different musical tastes to balance it.

Again, IMO the big thing here is.... I dunno that these KJ's are on top of it. But, maybe they are. She just told me saturday that she's talking to the radio stations. So maybe she's trying to find the right kind of judges. I just hope it don't come down to the last minute, and no judges be in place, and them have to call on crowd members, or worse yet, Denny's regulars who are not participating. Cause no, THAT would not be a fair & impartial judge.

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

Well, I'll be there every wednesday and saturday until it's over anyhow.... this is getting too good to miss.  LOL  Gawd, I'm a bytch, I'm there for the drama only..... No, not true, most of my friends have already made it in. Just waiting for Frank & Stacey to make the cut, then I'm all good.

Our own little redneck AI contest... who'd a thunk it?  :whistle:


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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

Yep!  And there in is where seemingly unfair contests are born - unorganized contests that have judging with people that associate with the bar.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Yeah, I know Lonnie. I have seen small town contests, where the winner was a 6 year old boy who couldn't sing a lick, but made his daddy ~town mayor~ awfully proud just the same. haha

I hope they get some great, very qualified judges, otherwise we will never hear the end of "how unfair" it was. I mean, I hope the people win who deserve to by any means.... but if it's proven that the judges were fair & unbiased people who knew what they were doing..... then not alot of bickering can go on afterwards. (ah... but I'm betting it will anyhow)

G'nite all... It's time for Charm to start planning supper...

(I'm thinkin' Taco Bell... or, maybe Dominos... )  :whistle:


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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

You are definitely right.  Have done quite a few contests myself.  It is a disaster waiting to happen and a loss inevitably of a great group of faithful followers.  Contests aren't just for fun.  Sure the bar owners want you to promote them as such, but I think you as well as I and many more know that just isn't true.
So true!  "What about the great singers we have that follow!"   They have great voices, and people come to hear them because of it.  But throw in a contest, and what happens?  They may not of won because they didn't look as good as some little redhead or blonde, (and your also right about the short skirt, and midriff top).  Sex sells.  Or the guy with the six pack abs and tight fitting jeans.  More women in the bar that night would throw those votes right at him.   Then you have the owners that want to use applause for the judging!!!!!!!!  How pathetic is that?  You didn't have as many friends with you, so you immediately lost out.  It is unfair, cruel and unkind to the real serious, as you put it, following.  Then you lost the good following only to watch the %&@$ winners follow yet another contest and screw up their crowd.
Other KJ's can have all the contest they want.  I have not seen a ONE yet, actually help the bar.  Or actually be honestly fair.
I thought about this once, to have a contest when the bar owner was pushing for them and would not back down, first to explain to him how it hurts the crowd and to work with me to do something for the ones who knew they weren't good enough to win a vocal contest.  Thought about haveing a lip sync sort of contest.  Let them perform in costume.  Maybe even as a group.  Yeah it sounded good at the time, but then here we go, "Bar Owners"  "Genuine Idiots In The Work Force".  Guess you know how that turned out.  They didn't want to promote that.  They thought it was a good idea, but where were the prizes then?  And you also are correct in stating that bar can get quite a few promotional items from their distributors.  Heck these people will help them run specials and give away freebie merchandise.  But how many times have you told them and they think it is great.  But yet have you seen anything?  Not me!  Keep up the good work, Big Dog! I think you may have some people here getting on the right track about contest.  :oh yeah:

We have had contests that the really good singers, wouldn't even enter.    I make a strict stand about not ever doing karaoke contests, my owners all know about it too.   If they want to do anything, it will be by handing out tickets at the door to everyone entering the bar.    Equal chance for everyone to win.  No favoritism, no crooked judges, no hard feelings, no mad singers.    Everyone will be back again, smiling next week.  :yes:   That will build a crowd faster.   Remember, there are always more nonsingers in every bar, at any time.

I hope all of my competition has contests every week.

This is the last post, I will ever post about crowd killing contests.   Kill your business, I don't care.   Especially if you live by me....

Thanks for the input Bigdog.  Wish I had more influence over the contest happening here.  I'll pass on your words of warning anyway.

We ran a 12 week contest recently with the 12 winners competeing at a final contest. The preliminary contests were scored on only vocals like you were sending in a demo. We handed out tickets to all in the bar who wanted to get a chance to Judge, then we drew 4 tickets from a jar to get random picked Judges. After the Judges were picked they were given instructions as to the score cards. The remaining People in the bar were given a slip to pick thier #1 choice, this choice changed final scoring by 10 points. The Judges score cards were split into 5 vocal points to score on giving 1-10 points per cat.  We ended up with 12 contestants that had fairly strong vocals. The final contest was scored on vocals and 4 other things such as stage presence, etc. The judges for the final contest were brought in from outside the lacality and had to be people with strong musical background, we had no Audience choice for the finals. It wasn't perfect but we had very few complaints.

There is a contest down the road from me.  It's an 8 week long one.   This bar has had them before.    People come to me and tell me how bad the judging was.    I will hear it again, after this one is over.    Now when people tell me these stories, I smile and think, they will never be able to talk about my business this way.    


In Real Estate it's LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION

In Karaoke it's ROTATION, ROTATION, ROTATION

In every business it's REPUTATION, REPUTATION, REPUTATION

Mine is not being ruined with a meaningless contest.    What's happening to yours?

I've never been involved with or even seen a contest and based on what I've seen here I'm not anxious to do so.

I don't know that the idea of a contest is really bad per se.  But it sounds as if there are several problems that could be solved fairly easily but it would take a lot of cooperation from the bar owners and/or sponsors.


First, I agree with everybody who has made the point that it disrupts the regular karaoke routine.  So if a bar owner or sponsor wants to put on a contest it should be held on what is normall a non-karaoke night and promoted as a contest night only.  That way the people who support the bar and who want to sing and have fun don't have their regular night(s) interrupted.

Everybody seems to agree that having the right judges is important so that there aren't bad feelings or claims that the whole thing is unfair.  That means outside people who have some type of qualification to be a judge.  Why would those people give up a night for free?  Well, maybe to promote their radio station or vocal studio.  

I made this point in an earlier post; if it is not made clear to the participants exactly what the purpose is going to be served by the outcome, the problems are already built in.  Frankly it doesn't matter whether the purpose is to find the best singer or the best entertainer or even the best looking.  But that needs to be communicated to everyone beforehand.  


Finally, the bar owner ought to be considering what he's going to get out of this.  If there is a sponsor that might be a consideration for them as well.  That's another reason for holding a contest on a non-karaoke night.  Unless the contest is likely to bring in a lot of additional business on a karaoke night it makes no sense to upset the regulars.  If they want to go out they will find somewhere to go.  Even if it is going to bring in a lot of extra business for one or several nights, does an owner want to alienate years of potential business for a bigger payday on just a few nights.  That's like winning the battle and losing the war.

I saw a post earlier that contained a comment about a brewery that seem to be promoting itself without any regard to promoting karaoke as well.  I don't think that one can reasonably expect either a sponsor or a bar to be acting out of anything except self-interest.  Ever.  Neither the bar or the sponsor have, or should have, any interest in promoting karaoke.  Their interest is in promoting their business and making money.  That is the only reason for owning a business.  And the only reason that KJs exist to them is in the furtherance of their primary goal.  It's not the karaoke that is important, it is the ability to increase sales.  So whether it's live bands, karaoke, or some other form of enterainment, the bar owner is going to always have his best interests at heart.  And that's neither right nor wrong.  It's just a simple statement of fact.

Larry

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"Life is too short for diet soda and lite beer"

Karaoke contests on a small scale are a bore. (note the period at the end of this sentence)

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Who loves ya baby?

Noted.  Was that a quarter note or half note?

Larry

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"Life is too short for diet soda and lite beer"

It's a really small whole note with an implied rest.

Obviously you missed the fact that I dotted the end of the first sentence.  I would have dotted the other sentence to execpt it would have constituted an aggregious misuse of punctuation.

I often miss implied rests because they seem so much less gratifying than actual rests.  

Larry

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"Life is too short for diet soda and lite beer"

The bar makes money off of it's reputaion and mine.   A contest that seems to be rigged or other wise infair, hurts that image.

Why would you go through all of the trouble to make one person happy (the winner) and in turn have 20-30 not happy, and maybe not return, because they think something was wrong, (whether is was or wasn't and maybe only in their mind)?

Who can spend more money and hurt your reputation more?   1 or 30?     I pick 30.   It's not worth one happy person.

This is the exact reason my stupid bar owner is going to lose $50,000.   She would rather cater to 1 trouble making, I'm going to sue everybody, A**HOLE that never in a million years will spend $50,000 in her bar or generate that kind of income for her, over me.    If you can figure out the answer to this question, you will be a millionaire.

A karaoke contest is what I call "Icing", the regular steady weekly karaoke customers are the cake.     Would you rather have cake or icing?

You don't have to be smart to own a bar, you just need the initial investment.  Lots of money doesn't equal a high I.Q.