Karaoke Forums

That's just it, people DO like contests, which is why they attract so many.  It's just a handful that usually may complain - however, at least in my experience, these aren't typically regular customers and are just there for the contest.  
Right now I have a couple weekly contests I run, Sun Kamikazee & Wed Blind Karaoke (you pick the song but are blindfolded while you sing).  The second one is a challenge because if you miss one line, it's hard to recover.  This one is also setup that once youu win with a song, you can never compete with that song again (in that contest) but I may set that rule up for any future regular contests as well!

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Lonman,  the way I often will judge something that's musical, is to shut my eyes, and NOT consider stage presence.  That's what I did with Idol.  I don't want to "see" how they sound. It can clutter certain areas when we get distracted in other areas.. Stage presence to me is a whole separate area.  If it's singing ability that solely matters,  I don't want to be influenced, or distracted by appearance.  To me,  musical precludes "garish", "attractive", "acting",  it's solely an auditory area...

Most of the songs that became "my favorite" songs for any given time, were heard on the radio.  I never saw these musicians.  Never knew what they looked like.  Musically to me, that never mattered.  They MUSICAL ability to me is not appearance

Even in such a circumstance, It's VERY tough to not be partial to music style, genre, etc..  It's NOT easy to be a fair judge.

There have been times, I couldn't make a decision without cosulting with a few others on the outside to help me sort out how level headed, and fair I'm truly being. VERY tough process

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I didn't say they won't bring in a big crowd, because they will.    It's the second the money is gone..... that you will be able to hear a pin drop in the middle of your next night.

They're like drunkin' sailors, fun til the money's gone, then look out.

The regulars at other bars will become once again, WHAT THEY ALWAYS WERE.....the regulars at other bars.

I would rather drink poison than to ever run a contest again.     Steady crowds are too hard to build and keep, without killing them with a [highlight=crimson]meaningless[/highlight] contest.   Did I mention that they are [highlight=crimson]meaningless[/highlight]?     How about [highlight=crimson]meaningless[/highlight]?  Are you getting the concept here?    MEANINGLESS, CROWD KILLING EVENTS.  

It's kinda like a non fatal, self inflicted gunshot wound.    

OFFICER RIGHT:  "Why did you shoot yourself in the foot and kill your own crowd Mr. Dog?     Wasn't everything alright before the contest?"  

DUMB DOG:    "Why?.....   Because..... I'm an idiot, officer.   We use to have a really nice crowd.     I didn't know everyone would get so mad and not come back.   I just wanted to have some fun and make the bar owner a lot of money.   What can I do now?    Now, that everyone has gone and my reputation is ruined?"    

OFFICER RIGHT:    "Reload the gun and aim better this time, son.   Without any money.... you may as well be dead."   Dum, Da, Da Dum

IF and I repeat, IF you can get your bar owner to get some free stuff from his vendors, that have at their disposal thousands of dollors worth of promotional items, IF you get some to give away so everyone in the bar has a chance to score, then it may build a crowd.

Right but this criteria was set-up by the company that organized the whole thing & they wanted the entire package NOT just a good singer - they are plentiful, but a good singer AND stage performer are harder to come by.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Hmm, you must have some bitter people, I run them often & have full crowds - no loss of regulars - even when they end.  Our weekly contests are just for fun & we get regulars that come in every week to play.  Sure you are going to get your contest hoppers, but that is part of the reason of doing them to introduce new faces & songs into the place & occasionally you will get NEW regulars out of them, at least I have.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

In my opinion it is better to not have a contest than to leave the results open for criticism.  And any time a contest of any kind is judged on subjective criteria there is the possibility of criticism.

If I were going to run a contest  the first thing I would do would to clearly define, to contestants, judges and the crowd, what I was looking for and I would weight the scoring to produce that result.

For example, are you looking for the best singer, period?  Then stage presence, crowd reaction, etc. have no place in the scoring criteria.  It's a technical contest.  Just be sure to have judges who are qualified to judge technical merit.

If you are looking for the best enterainer, it's a different story.  That's a combination of singing skill, presence, presentation and, to a lesser extent, appearance.  Even then, it's pretty important to define the degree to which each of those attributes contriubutes to an entertaining performance.

Although it seems more democratic to let them have a effect on the results, I would never let audience reaction be a criteria.  The reason is that it's too easy for the person who brings the most friends to have an undesireable effect on the outcome of the contest.  And that's true even if the criteria are weighted.

It's the same with judges.  If you want to keep any kind of local bias out of the results, you can't use spectators, the KJ, the bartender or anyone who has anything to do with the place act as a judge.  Plus the judge ought to have some qualifications.

In my opinion, the ability to entertain is more important than singing skill alone.  Real life shows us that all the time.  How many of us have heard people who sing far better than the pros but will never have a career because they don't have the ability to sell a song to an audience?  And how many big stars are there who are pretty good, but aren't great from a technical standpoint, but who are really enteraining?

So who's more entertaining, a cute young thing with a short skirt show sings well and who had cleavage down to her belly button and a very pleasing personality, or a 450 lb. woman who dresses only in spandex and sweatshirts and has the best voice you've ever heard, a perpetual scowl, a mole on her chin with a hair growing out of it and all the personality of a bag of rocks?

The correct answer is: it depends on who is listening because it's all subjective as hell.  But  I suspect that 99.9% of the time Miss Cleavage gets the nod.  But that's not really any different than the way the recording industry works anyway.

I've had a long and by any standards, mediocre career as a singer/guitarist in cover bands.  At this point people still pay me to peform.  But it's not because I am either the best singer in the world nor am I the best musician.  But despite that, my partner and I are fairly entertaining.  People come to see that.  Our show is a mix of great old rock & roll and R&B and everything else from stand-up comedy to goofy props to admittedly awful puns.  But people are entertained and that's why we get booked.  We have fun and so does our audience.

Larry

_________________
"Life is too short for diet soda and lite beer"

Once I ran a contest called Studio Star where it was based entirely on Vocal/Singing ability nothing more.  The judges were seated in a place where they could not even see the singers.  The winner of this one received a 5 song cd recorded at a professional studio.  Appearance had no bearing.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Judging friends isn't much different than any other S&M activity.  There will be accusations regardless, your statements and criteria will be distorted, and you MUST be prepared to lose the friends.  If you folks think basic honest critique is tough, as is ranking... Try judging a contest with friends where the stakes are a considerable amount of money. Whether a courtroom judge, or a contestant judge (peoples pride, and ego is at stake) is it no wonder judges wish to be unlisted ?  LOL

I have been in such a position.  What I like about it I suppose, is that it does show limits of friendship.  I've lost friends, and when I judged any situation, I'm obviously willing to do-so

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Were they long time friends or 'barfly' friends that you probably wouldn't hang out with anyway or maybe once in a blue moon - these kind of friends probably weren't true to begin with?

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Well, to make everything OK in the end, the winner of the karaoke contest should have to buy all the other contestants and barflys a drink and some curly fries or nachos.  LOL

Doesn't matter Lonman.  This is VERY trying on a friendship.  Especially if your friend hates a contestant you feel is better than they are.  Not just music either, judging friends often means "behaviour", situations.  Since the term "Friend" is somewhat of a loose term, and not an "ideal".. Judging friends and family can become HIGHLY controversial.  

This is a funny example, yet it get's back to something we touched on in the past... Blatant honesty often does mean this

"Do I look fat in this dress?"

Response.. "You Betcha"


If I am going to judge a contest with a friend up on stage,  it might very well come down to, "so and so, is more attractive than you"..... "So and so has more talent than you".... TRUE honest judging of aesthetics or behaviour is a VERY ugly position to be in. Few can place "ego" aside.


My point being, assuming I judge something, (also assuming I do care enough to substantiate my reasons which to a true friend I must be willing to IMHO), I must stick by my decision.  Not waive.  Be held accountable for what I actually said and felt.  It's not anonymous.  It's trying, time consuming, and often a headache I don;t have time for, or want.... It takes ALOT of time for a judge to vindicate a decision... It's an ego debate.  Few friends can take blatant honesty.  Few people can.

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Sorry Lonman, to answer your actual question.

Both bar situation, which might be considered "fair weather" type friendship, and REAL friends in daily life situation.  I have been in both situations.

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Then decline being a judge if you know a frined is involved.  You don't have to judge.  For my silly weekly contests I still will pick people to judge that are not sitting with any contestants & if the contestants are people that I know they associate with I will pick another judge.  I've had people decline judging - just say no!
I still say if they are going to get pissed at YOU because of the results, then they are not a true friend to begin with.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

The tab will be a small one, because noboy will be there.

Weekly contests for fun, may very well work.   Because they are meaningless.    I have a crowd that doesn't like the time that contests take away from the regular singing time.    Contests take up valuable time for the people that are not and do not wish to be in one.     This is where you can start to lose regulars.    My people tell me they came to sing for the fun of singing and they do not want to be in a competition.

Bitter yes....   I have seen a singer, actually threaten a judge.    I have seen people get mad and not come back for 6 months.    I have been accused of rigging the outcome.       I have had enough of meaningless, crowd killing contests.   Why tooo many crybabies for my liking.     I could go to the hospital nursery to see this kind of stuff.

Agreed.  I do-so now.  It's not worth it to me.  What I was responding to was what I quoted.



More than not, this is NOT a good idea IMHO (Friends with MANY of the contestants especially)...  Which is my point.  It's like an S&M activity.  I can't agree with anything more... It's often risky, and people who thought you were their friend, VERY often, don't expect you to remain unbiased. It's sick among adults, yet even among adults it will sometimes come down to this..

"but I though YOU were MY friend"... meaning.... Why didn't you push me thru ~

Few can handle this type situation on either end...Judge or contestant..

Now as I said,  it DOES depend on type and extent of judging.. Of course it depends on individuals as well.  Being VERY honest, is NOT an easy process ~




Exactly what I mean by term of friend being often used VERY loosely.  We have VERY few true friends in life, that can withstand total honesty at all times.



How many of our current "friendships" are "TRUE friends" ?

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Well, we'll see how this event in Canby continues to unfold.  Charmin and I will keep you posted.  

Well I could smell trouble brewing after the second night of judging.  So that's why I quit.  Besides that, I was requested to be there on Wednesdays and Saturday at 10:30 -- and of course I'm personally not getting any pay or compensation for all this, so why would I want a part time unpaid job anyway?    My first and foremost reason for going is to be entertained and have fun!

After serving on several "boards", and trouble-shooting teams.  You learn to spot trouble before even getting yourself in the situation to begin with  LOL ..  It unravel's like a chess game in your head.... All we say, and do...we are accountable for.. While we can't take responsibility for other's reactions to what was say, nor can we know how honest others are being with us, it DOES pay to be perspicacious enough to see prospective situations ahead of time. Sometimes judging your friends, is perceived as criticising them in the long haul... It's almost a backhanded way of telling them that they weren't "that good".  Many don't want to hear it.

While I do have friends, that might not be that good in certain area's, they usually tell me, "Don't tell me how bad I was,  I just love singing"....  However if these types people enter a contest, which sometimes down the road they do, and I judge them.... I MUST tell them in a round about way...  (This is an extreme example, along the lines of what I'm talking about).  ONLY judge a friend you know can handle your blatant honesty. There are limitations even on good friendships.  Tacit expectations much of the time...  This is a great trial !!  

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

We are kind of talking about 2 different things here. The weekly/monthly local bar contest for a few $100 or a few prizes is novel and a change of pace to the karaoke schedule. If it generates business, great!. If not well try something else. But in my opinion who cares who wins?  It is what it is.

Now on the other hand I recently witnessed a national energy drink sponsored event where local finalists were selected and will participate in the national finals at the end of the month. I tell you of those I saw perform (6 total) I would say that only one is deserving and will have a chance to be final 10. It is whacked when you hear 3 songs performed that are so pitchie you want to get out of your seat and step outside. But because they're cute, 20 something, spike heels, low cut blouse and exposed midriff they are a finalist.  

But then it seems that this is the way it is today with most things. Polish a turd and refer to it as a gem.

I agree,  but to answer your question.. QUITE a few-   Is often the case

Who should care about a "critique" or "ranking" when they ask for it in singers showcase ?  Still, look at what happens !  This is only one small example.  Incidentally these are often strangers, NO prize as a result, etc..  In the case of Singer's Showcase, yet look at the arguments and "EGO'S" upset.   Contestants have ego's.... We all do to varying extents.

Too many think they are, or want to be a "10", and sometimes it's the contest that makes them face the fact, they are not !

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".