Karaoke Forums

I know the no compete clause is pretty much useless.  However, you could use it as a deterent.  I would only limit it to 30 days and within a 20 mile radius.  That may make them think twice about leaving you for a very close competitor.  I would not ever try to enforce.  I would simply remind someone when they quit that they signed the contract.  This in many cases could deter them from showing up at your gigs for fear that you would sue them.  

I would do the no compete thing, just use it as a mind tool.  That's all the big corporations use it for.

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Will sing or fish for food!!I'm not quite right!!

Rule number one:    never get into business with family.
Rule number two:    you may see that a competitor giving their cards out at a show
                             as unethical, it's not.  It may be tacky but not unethical.  No
                             worse than Coke and Pepsi vying for the same customers.
Rule number three:  it is unrealistic to believe that some employees at sometime in
                             life will strike out on their own.  (Dave Thomas of Wendy's is
                             probably one of the more famous ones when he opened
                             Wendy after being with KFC for over 20 years)
Rule number four:    sometimes the employee is better than the employer
Rule number five:    non-compete clauses are useless.  The can start the same day
                             quit.  How many CEOs and executives go from one company to
                             another. (Lee Iacoco is a good example)
Rule number six:     unless you are using discs and players or legally bought
                             computer downloads, don't be talking about the competition's
                             harddrive.  It could come back to bite you in the butt.

Welcome to the world of business.  Those that grow adapt.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

karma is a great thing

as an employee, he did a rotten thing.  you should hold your head high because your comments about the struggles you are having with this issue, tells me you are a very honorable person.  don't sacrifice yourself for "revenge".  it's not worth it.

also, i am a firm believer in separation of work and home.  what happens at work, stays at work.  i know that is hard for some people but it can be learned.  

(unless he has done something like this before, then by all means, as no vocals said earlier, lock him in the closet)

several people in here have said never hire family.  consider this a lesson learned.

and if all else fails, get some ice cream.

keep smilin

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[scroll]we're men, manly men, we're men in tights[/scroll]

Tim, your rule number six exludes that I am using a computer, yes, but all legally bought discs.

Is it legal to convert?
Nope.

But am I ripping anybody off?

Nope!

Sharon is right; use it as a tool. To a large extent, it does not matter if it is enforceable; what matters if is your KJ THINKS it is enforceable.

Just a question--was your brother and is your new KJ a contractor or an employee? Might make a difference.

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[glow=darkorchid]Musica delenit bestiam feram[/glow]

Good thread.

Just wondering if anyone has ever tried to go to the D.A.'s office and file an illegal competition suit? My apologies if this has been brought up before, but I can't remember seeing this posted in any threads as a possible deterence. Remember seeing it on the KAPA site, where they were giving alternatives... since they couldn't do anything about it . Has anyone ever done this successfully?

Yeah, I'd probably make it known that him and his friends show ain't quite legal. I personally don't consider that "stooping to his level". You pretty much had you're karaoke ideas for set-up, equipment, locales, stolen for another company by your own brother! That's maybe not illegal, but it's definately low-ball. Then they've got an 80,000 song hard drive! That's a LOT of money that they DIDN'T have to spend to compete with you.

However, if they had to actually find out from you what kind of equipment to use, how to use it, etc., that means that they probably aren't too knowledgable about it in the first place, which could work in your favor, competition-wise.

Should be a fun Thanksgiving & Christmas!

I have had ex employees go right to the music store where I bought all of my systems.  They told them to give them the exact same system and set it up.   Music store wasn't going to say no.

One guy wanted to keep working for me & him.    He stole the gig he was doing for us.  

I placed an ad in the paper.    We started at the closest bar to them, I gave the new guy a hellova deal.    The old place was called the "Pit Stop" (race car theme).    The ad read as follows:   If your karaoke is the Pits, Stop at So & Sos for good karaoke.

I had a call from the owner, he wasn't real happy about my play on words.  He said he even talked to a lawyer.    Bigdog out foxed him.  

The ex employee doesn't know how to run his equipment, heard this from a few people.   He made his move too soon.   Am I Pi**ed.     You bet.   Did it hurt, yes.   Did I lose money, yes.  Did he steal all of my trade secrets, yes.     Is he doing as well?

As far as little brother goes.     My mother sided with my ex wife during the divorce.    Her meddling cost me $50,000 or more, than it should have.    She no longer exists, to me.   I don't even remember her phone number.    My sister won't even say anything about her to me.    It gets a little more complicated, but I'll leave it here.   I feel severely betrayed by her.

He turned his back on blood, that's how I look at it.   Sounds like he wanted to be the big shot, to his buddies, at your expense.   Sometimes people can be really stupid.   He screwed you out of long term money (and his Christmas presents).   i.e. future business, by creating competition for you.   It could easily top $50,000.   Good thing your not drowning, he'd through you a cement block.    :(

Stay away from their gigs.     I don't go to any of my ex employees gigs.    There are a good many of them.    Best them, by being better than them.    You don't need their business.   It will come to you eventually.   They can copy me all they want, but they are not me and never will be.

The eternal K.J. double-edge sword: You try to train them well enough to run a quality show for your customers, but you almost don't wanna show them stuff that can be used against you if they break free and start their own gig. Happens a lot in all business I guess, but it stinks that small independent karaoke owners could be more affected than say, big corporations, to some degree.

To bad we can't give lie detecter test or interrogation before they get hired.... "So you SWEAR that you don't have sneaky, self-serving motives for taking this job!!"; "Make a blood oath to me that I am your Yoda and you are my Luke, d*&mnit!!"; "You think Sweet Georgia Brown is the brand EVER *slap*?!?! ....or something to that effect.

That was great play on words advertising Bigdog!

This kind of stuff happens all of the time in business.  It's just business.  Karaoke is a business just like any other.  It's not sacred.  

So you lose a KJ.  What exactly are you losing?  My guess is that in most cases what you are losing is technical expertise which can be replaced.  Not easily and not without incurring some cost in training, but it can be replaced.  

But what's the hardest part of the business?  Booking shows!  That's not the fun part of the business but it's where everything starts.  I don't know how you all run your businesses but I'm willing to bet that having a hired KJ do booking is probably not the norm.

So your KJ leaves to start his own business.  He knows how to acquire equipment and music.  Big deal.  Anyone can do that.  If he doesn't know how, it's part of the business that your local karaoke store is in.  Yes, you've probably taught your KJ's how to run a successful show.  And they know where you play.  But do they know who the primary contact is, how to get the gigs, how to go out and talk to owners and the kinds of things that have to be covered to get hired?  Probably not.  And that's where your greated value to your business lies.  Your KJ's can't take that with them.


Larry

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"Life is too short for diet soda and lite beer"

I have taught kids how to milk cows. farm, cowboy and tend stock I have taken kids under my wing in the military and given them an anchor if they didnt have one Many have learned from me in various jobs how to do many things. And I would hope that if any them started a business what they learned from me would make them prosper. We would never be direct competition with each other There are other more important factors involved that will detrmine our success some we have control over some we dont but it will behoove both of us to concentrate on those and not be worrying about what each other is doing...

We taught the kid everything we knew about miking cows feeding and the such and he had the audacity to buy 100 cows and put in a dairy a mile down the road..  Maybe we could make a law where all the cows have to be licensed or maybe one that says 2 dairys have to be 5 miles apart.. I know!!!  We wil sue him for the knowledge that we gave him..
 Not a good analogy you say?!!!  I betcha I got more cream than you got.....

Man, I've gat alot of reading to do !! What a time for my computer to freak out !! Just got it back up ! Thanks for the input I'll begin reading now !!

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Kelley
Star Sounds Karaoke & Mobile Recording Studio


[shadow=black][scroll]You have to respect your audience. Without them, you're essentially standing alone, singing to yourself....KD Lang[/scroll][/shadow]

timberlea,
IF you would look at our website YOU WOULD KNOW that we  only use ORIGINAL cdgs AND ORIGINAL dj music . We pride ourselves in letting people know that we DO NOT copy ,download, or in other words STEAL our music. That we have actually WORKED our way to where we are.  
 As far as handing out cards at our show. YES I STILL think it is unethical. Oh AND tacky. Friendly compitition is A OK with me but what hes doing is downright dirty. I dont mind competing with anyone but I go on my companys reputation and our equipment and music AND ethics. I have never go into others shows and drum up business for myself, but have thought about it many times since this began. Thats why I was trying to get other KJs here to give their opinion.
 It is NOT unrealistic to believe that in my situation that one day he will crash and burn. You have got to know him to understand that point.
  The ONE point I actually agree with you on is to not get into business with family!   Live and learn there !!  
 Thanks for your opinion though ,  :handshake:

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Kelley
Star Sounds Karaoke & Mobile Recording Studio


[shadow=black][scroll]You have to respect your audience. Without them, you're essentially standing alone, singing to yourself....KD Lang[/scroll][/shadow]

Of course you do Karyoker,  because the kid that you taught, that opened the dairy farm too close to you is selling his cream to your ex-customers, and you are stuck with alot of creme that isn't selling.  LOL

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

 LMAO  LOL  LOL

Kelley I didn't say you didn't use originals.  My "rules" were for general purpose for all to use or not use.  Though what he did may have been "tacky" it's not illegal or unethical, no worse than as I said what Coke or Pepsi do or other big rivals in the same type of business.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

You brought up some excellent points btw Tim !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

He [highlight=crimson]has[/highlight] the knowledge and the equipment to go out and undercut your business.   If you don't think it's going to hurt you, you're nuts.     He [highlight=crimson]will[/highlight] get some of your jobs.  (He will go for the sure bets, the places that already have karaoke.  It's an easier sell than a place that never had it.)  Why do you think he's in those places handing out cards???????   He may not be able to keep them.   But a lost job, is a lost job.   Money you didn't make and he did.   Once he advertises the low price, your price looks like you're a gouger.    You need to go into a damage control mode.    Protect the jobs you have.     If you're looking for other jobs put together a good promo package.   Show case your professionalism and expertise.    None of which he has yet.   Look bigger and better than you are.     It's all in the perception and how you sell yourself.    Out sell him.    I learned the hard way.   Only teach people enough to do the job the way you want it done.   Never give them information that can and will be used against you, in a crowded bar.    LMAO

Hi all, I have read all of your posts and have taken them all in, ( Food For Thought )
I appreciate all of your opinions.
Me and my husband have been debating about what to do for weeks. I wanted revenge most of those times and he was the cool calm one that has more times than not in the past 18 years of marriage been correct in his instincts.
 Dont get me wrong Im NOT a vengeful person I have now thru this thread begun to really look at the situation and realize that it is more of a personal burn than professional. I just couldnt believe that my own blood brother could not want me to succeed so much that he would try to ruin our business. So that said I am going to try to ignore his unwelcome visits to my shows and try to just show and prove that we are the bigger more professional company thru our attitudes AND our equipment music AND ethics by not going to his shows and to his level of maturity.(by the way it seemed like by younger brother some of you thought he might be like 20 or so hes actually 34 years old)
 Competition is competition I will deal and sometimes prevail. The proof is going to be in the pudding.We just have got to be on our game and prove what we are!!

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Kelley
Star Sounds Karaoke & Mobile Recording Studio


[shadow=black][scroll]You have to respect your audience. Without them, you're essentially standing alone, singing to yourself....KD Lang[/scroll][/shadow]

[quote]Best them, by being better than them.    You don't need their business.   It will come to you eventually.   They can copy me all they want, but they are not me and never will be.

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Kelley
Star Sounds Karaoke & Mobile Recording Studio


[shadow=black][scroll]You have to respect your audience. Without them, you're essentially standing alone, singing to yourself....KD Lang[/scroll][/shadow]

something to think about !

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Kelley
Star Sounds Karaoke & Mobile Recording Studio


[shadow=black][scroll]You have to respect your audience. Without them, you're essentially standing alone, singing to yourself....KD Lang[/scroll][/shadow]