Karaoke Forums

*looks in star chart book for "Mongo"* Hmm Michael are you sure you got that planet name right, I can't find it here... would that be in the Jacka$$ galaxy right next to planet Ignoramus?

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Te audire no possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure. (I can't hear you. I have a banana in my ear.)

Hey, be nice. That's my home planet. We are dumb but very nice people, usually.

Awww Chuck I'm sorry... do you need a hug now??  

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Te audire no possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure. (I can't hear you. I have a banana in my ear.)

Yes, thanks, all better now.

Hi Lisa, thank you for your compliments.  I also love your singing! Me and Michael were trying to figure out why MC was targeting us.  I don't know who the 3rd person is, but I'll have to check into that later.  :swg: I saw Michael dedicated a song to him too...Michael ya little devil!!!  :reddevil: I'm gonna swing by there later and listen to your "soaring" tribute to him!! One thing I do notice is that the few times someone wanted to make a nasty comment to me, they decided to hide behind a brand new username to do so.  Show some balls, man! That is so damn cowardly.  But like you said, consider the source.  

I've always thought this site is for fun.  Although, I've learned a heckuva lot by being here (I NEVER thought I'd make my own recordings before being here), it's still, in my opinion, for amateurs.  I am an amateur! If I were a pro, I'd be in a recording studio making a real cd with trained sound engineers!  Until the day that happens, well I just wanna relax and shoot the breeze here with my pals.

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Luly... how do you properly complain? I just went to look at Michael's sub and saw Music Critic's lovely comment... I feel ill. I would like to PERSONALLY complain about this simply because I have already dealt with someone gay bashing once today on MY OWN SUB then changing their comment. I am getting a bit sick of the stupid drama on ss... would kind of like to help put an end to it.

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Te audire no possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure. (I can't hear you. I have a banana in my ear.)

I wrote a dissertation on this a few nights ago while unconscious over in Singer's Showcase... Let me walk over there, and drop it in here....


brb

It was in "The million dollar vocal secret thread",  I believe...

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Critiquing technique, and other aspects of etiquette are valuable social tools that ALL adults should learn.  How to be honest, & more importantly, when it's OK NOT to keep an opinion to ourselves... What we learn is that "the truth" often hurt's, so we should keep opinion's to ourselves, and instead lie. There's little place for this in "Critique", it's the learning of a new skill, that goes against our grain much of the time. We must learn how to present constructive criticism to others. Criticism of this type, in our culture today normally is retorted with "Who asked you for your opinion?", or "The nerve of you to say that to me".. Or, (although Critique was asked for in public, we learn we've inadvertently hurt someones feelings for two reasons).. 1)  They don't know what Critique means, and as importantly 2) We don't know what Critique means, nor do we often have the skill involved to Critique..

So often we fall prey to this damned Politically Correct world we live in that just is conducive so much of the time to what we refer to as "White Lies", shutting our mouth, however often feeling the desire to be honest with at least somebody we feel comfortable with,  we'll say to our friend (instead of a performer regarding the person asking for a critiques lack of ability), "God, John Doe really has a pitch and meter problem, he sucks"... We often aren't so nice when we present this behind his back, yet it's OUR problem much of the time, because we don't know how to be honest to a person that has every right to say (assuming this get's back to them),  

"Why are you telling other's about my problem behind my back ? Didn't I ask for Criticism in order to improve ? I asked you to offer ME what would've helped me.. You appear to be too much of a coward to say that to my face Kappy.. I made it easy for you, I ASKED for the :C:"...

and realistically, if we know how to give a Critique, we should never feel the need to carry the onus when the performer throws a tantrum, because he too, is a product of this Politically Correct society where "All are equal" meaning A 10+++++++ for all, anything else show's bias, descrimination, or just that we don't like the person we give the lower rank too... and THAT's really sad in Critique setting !  Yet it's what's instilled in us from a young age in our culture, and this is paradoxical to the Critiquing concept. Giving just 9's and 10's to a person who believes you, when you aren't being sincere is lying. Regardless of why you are doing it. You aren't helping them artistically. If anything, you are hurting them.

Critique, SHOULD be constructive, it's usually what we don't tell a person that's hurting them, however if we don't know how to tell them, that's OUR fault.. In that case we likely should just be commenting, not Critiquing at all. If we like the person, they don't deserve our lies, meaning we conceal what it is they need to know in order to help them improve, (assuming they request a Critique). Critique is a difficult process for most, The presentation does take thought, how to be "Constructively honest" isn't something most of us learn today. It's also not an area that's nurtured assuming we do have such an ability; More than not, helpful efforts will be met with "Mind your own business"  Critiquing really challenges this, A thought out Critique is NOT "negative", it's an honest attempt at helping someone assuming our efforts aren't ego-driven, and the motive is not to show OUR skill and upstage the performer to the public reading the critique, and replies, alike.  The honest Critique might be the Up-Down-Up type (well thought out) composition, but it MUST not be all sugar-coated at the expense of leaving out constructive help regarding where the person can improve, the problem many have with critiquing really lies in the fact that in our politically correct world, it get's instilled in us that "IF we can't say something nice, don't way anything at all".  Unfortuneately, this concept trickles into area's of Critiquing, but the fact is we ARE being nice when we offer HONEST help to another musician that's asking for help.. It's fear of sounding "judgmental", "hypercritical", "not minding one's own business", that hurt's the process when we are met with the individual asking for critique (that so much of the time doesn't even know the definition of the term "Critique".)  When this happens, it only reinforces our own insecurity, because when we critique a person, it's NOT an easy process, it's NOT a one-upping process, for these reasons, it SHOULD (IN MY OPINION) be a private exchange, and dialogue between TWO and only two people in this type environment..NOT the whole singer's showcase.

(OK,  I can't proof read this,  I'm shot, but just feel like yacking from my soapbox:)  .. However I do mean every word I say...Oftentimes etiquette instilled in us, poses a harsh contrast to the process of "Critique"... First thing that comes to many people mind is

"C"= You are insulting the performer, and hurting their feelings because in essence you are telling them what you think is ugly about them....

I find this VERY VERY sad


Just a thought....

Let's view things a bit differently

"The Million dollar PERFORMING ARTIST'S secret" is really other people that the artist meet's along the way that nurture his interest, and help him grow"

This isn't always positive SOUNDING, nor is it the sweet and superficial process we see post after post in SS...Noone will come out ahead IN REAL in terms of singing ability UNLESS someone's willing to tell them (assuming the request C), what they aren't doing correctly !..  Critique isn't for the delicate ego..   Yet constructive HONEST criticism, and the careful analysis, along with proper suggestions on how a person can improve, things the artist CAN'T POSSIBLY discern himself... Is really the Million dollar secret.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I guess he changed it...it now reads:

"I apologize if I offended you MJK. I simply thought that was what this site was all about. I am surprised at all the nasty things you have said in your comments. I wish you all the best. Good Luck "

I never read what he wrote originally, but I am against ALL bashing and so is this site.

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I've said it once, and I will say it again.... (ok, once, a REALLY looooong time ago:)

You put your "music" into a completely open forum... people can easily register, and listen, and comment. You HAVE to be aware of that, and deal with it.

Lots of "professional" singers get blasted everyday. I mean, do ALL of you guys love britney spears? No? well, look how many albums she has sold.   (for example)...

people can like you, or not... and constructive or not, the critisism is theirs to make. Hell, i don't know EXACTLY why i don't like listening to Jessica Simpson, or Christina aguilera... or even Alicia Keys. I just don't. it isn't my thing. Some voices here (on ss)just aren't my thing too.

If you are going to share your "music".. be prepared. SH!T happens. Either deal, or get a huge posse to back you up, and kick A$$.


I don't think you need a degree in music to critique someone, or have an answer ready, like "at 1:38, you were strainging to hit the high c, and you went off very sharp, then, at 1:48, you faltered, and changed teh rhythm in a way unflattering to the beat of the music.", etc etc etc. I think a quick honest comment is suffice, and if you don't like any... click "no comments":) And, if after that, you are unsatisfied... PM the person, and ask them WHERE and HOW you can improve... , good luck getting an answer though. That "ain't" their job:)


yeah, come on, flame me, flame me;)


(no seriously, don't bother, because i REALLY don't give a crap:) La ti da:)

Agreed.... but then why create a "JUST FOR FUN" niche just to have people ignore it?

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True... but, isn't the critiquable (is that a word?) for fun too? I mean... why the heck aren't you having fun?:)

Either way, you can't stop people from sayign stuff you don't want to hear. NO ONE wants to hear something negative about themselves, or something they do. You can deny (not you personally hon:), it all you want, but it is human nature. You WANT to be perfect.  Deep down, you may know your submission wasn't, but you honestly REALLY don't want to hear it:) Buuuuuutttt... you post it somewhere... like SS,  and you leave an oppurtunity open for someone to not like it, and simply bluntly, tell ya:) I am always prepared for someone to agree with me, about my submissions sucking. And people HAVE:) At least, i feel validated;)

Gawd, you should hear the stuff i get in REAL life, from people just making judgement calls, about my appearence! Lol, and i have NEVER sang at Karaoke. Never even been. NEVER sang in front of people. whoops, rambling. GOodnight luly

Noooo, don't go! I'm having too much fun!!!  LOL

If you read back Gilly, I was never mad at the guy.  I was upset that my friends were getting upset.  I simply wanted him to be more specific as to where I could improve.  Believe it or not, I am okay with critique...as long as it's done respectfully.

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Whewww, Steven...that was one long post.  Some things never change.  LOL

My eyellids are at half mast, but I'm gonna say a few things.  This is one of those topics that's always a hot button thing and will never be resolved.  I've been involved too many times and the subject's kinda old and weary, actually.  

Maybe tomorrow I'll have more to say.  Maybe not.

Good night.

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Dont' worry, i havent' left... yet.. I was outside sneaking a smoke.. my Justy is away, and I promised to quit... whoops;)


I wasn't exactly telling YOU my ramble... I was just saying it in general, to the title of the topic:) Dis, dat, and the oder ting, too, wa:) I just don't think you can really take ANY sort of "attack", or "critique" seriously online. We all play parts, and you will just play along to get upset (again, you, in the general sense:) To get mad, or angry, or.. whatever, is simply foolish.. this isn't the "real" world.. but hell, i don't get mad in THAT world either:)

This topic comes up, again and again.... but, it always will:)


Ya knows I luvs ya.  


NOW, i goes to sleep, i do's;)

Luv ya too, kid.  Now lay off the smokes and git your hiney in bed.  Talk to y'all tomorrow.  :asleep:

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I want to make mention of one other thing that's very important, ESPECIALLY among those of us that are musician's, and on the side offering Critique.... We must know our limitations, and be aware of that which we DON'T know as much about in the vast area of music styles, and not be afraid to say... "I don't feel qualified regarding that particular genre", or  "Your ability as a vocalist excede's my limited ability to help"... It's not important we know everything, or feel we must have an answer all the time... Some here at times are just too damn good for my limited ear.. I have no probs admitting that,  yet that doesn't mean their next song, I won't be able to help with... Sometimes the best I can do is tell a person "Sounds really great to me"...Yet EVEN when I think something is a "10", that's when I feel it's most important to tell them why it's the best rendition of a song I've ever heard... and critique that too.... It's true,  A critique CAN be all praise, ASSUMING you don't hear an area that can stand for some improvement in your opinion... I have heard what I thought were perfect renditions, and have stated why... That takes a lot of work too... The goal is solely to attempt to help someone who shares a common interest. I always listen with pen and paper, and rewind, and listen again...  Think... if necessary hit the piano to get into minimal theory on a song, also if necessary do a head-to-head with the actual original artist if the person is trying to nail the cover... As I stated, Billy (OK what now) brought up one of the most important aspects of a Critique.... and that's to ask the singer what they are trying to do with the song.. What is THEIR objective ?  Make it their own ?  Cover it ?  etc

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Yeah,  after droves of PM's saying "Kappy, you really should come out've your shell, and not be so afraid of presenting yourself to others",  I've started to work on transcending some of my bashfulness.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

bashfulness......uhhhhuhhhhh okayyyyy uhmmm I would hate to see you really out of your shell!  

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Te audire no possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure. (I can't hear you. I have a banana in my ear.)

good speech steven:)

I love reading your posts, when i can't sleep:)


Ya know.. I have never ranked anyone before:) Just realizing this now.

And, I think it is basically becaues I haven't HEARD a ten... and people don't really.. appreciate anything less. Sure, I have heard some amazing submissions, and voices I absolutely ADORE... there are ALWAYS a few sour spots, regardless. I mean, come on... this is an online karaoke site... if you were a ten, you would be famous:) I just don't think it can be honeslty acheived.. although some have come pretty darn close.

And, I agree. I am NOT "qualified" to "critique" anyone (singing), regardless of my past in music.... now, if one of you post an instrumental, playing some sort of brass instrument, WATCH out, My students used to complain about me being a tough critiquer:) Lol.

I also don't think you can ever REALLY explain, in a little comment box, why you didn't like the tune (and you know what? Sometimes, that is as simple as it is for me. I may simply NOT like YOUR take, or YOUR sound on a particular song, and that is simply MY own opinion... no critique nessecary).... And, after receiving all of the glowing comments from your friends, someone pointing out flaws can be really hard to handle... but, you HAVE to admit at least, to yourself, that they are there...and maybe look for them, and do better.... that is, if you WANT to improve:) But, really now, who DOESN"T want to improve, at ANYTHING they are doing.

Ok, why am i going on like this?

Yep,  I feel the actual Critique should be a discussion.  If my opinion is asked for, I'll sometimes have a few questions prior to listening.. Another consideration, some people who post for "C",  have done the song in only one rough take, and don't mention that... If a person has only done a song once, and is not worried about slightly rough edges, I believe they should post,  "I only did this song in one take, didn't edit it",  that makes a HUGE difference in what I might no longer assume is actually a problem area...  There is a stigma to a word like Critique, and the ranking nightmare... Well.. I'd Critique (although I don't like that word in a friendly social venue, reserve Critique for formal musical training), yet not Rank.. Although if a person does something I think to be a "10". I'll likely tell them anyway.... I suppose if I really thought about it,  I'd rather change the terms to a phrase such as

"This person has submitted this song requesting you be their *objective ears* in order to assist them in how YOU believe they can improve their submitted rendition". Rank shall be submitted privately to avoid Singer's Showcase becoming a competitive war-zone; Like the real world,  some are much more talented than you, and others much less talented. Since rank is totally subjective, and often becomes a source of dissention, even camouflaged bashing, and few like coming in last place, the Singer's Showcase does not wish to endorse such a process. The purpose of the Showcase is not to pit people against one-another. When there's a Ranking process, this is so-often the case. If you wish for a rank, ask for it, and receive it privately"

That's along the lines of my feelings on this...

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".