Karaoke Forums

Jim has talked about not really going after the individual small fry hosts, because let's face it just isn't worth the time and money it would take to run them down. The answer is to go after the deep pockets the venue's themselves. He is employing the old Government policy of killing off the buffalo and forcing the Indians onto reservations. The venues in theory left would be working with PEP and only hiring PEP licensees, which in turn like the venues be paying PEP. So the PEP licensees would be the new reservation Indians. There would be few independent operators left, and to avoid legal problems venues would elect to hire licensees. This is all of course if PEP's plan works. This is all part of an on going process where everything is leased or rented and no individuals actually own anything, I thought that was Communism? Maybe I'm wrong.

ROTFL

(System says I need more characters for a valid post.)

What's the matter Jim speechless for once? I thought that this plan was used in the Las Vegas suits, that didn't turn out so well did it?

I am envisioning the dystopian future of karaoke that is controlled by a single evil corporation. Underground karaoke bars being raided by government forces. The burning of unauthorized copies of digital media a la Fahrenheit 451. And only being able to play from original discs.

Good thing I will be dead long before then......

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-Chris

Laugh all you want Chris, if you think that going after venues is going to be good for legal hosts, then I think you better check what you have been smoking. Attacking the venues will only make them to where they will want to drop karaoke, period.

I smoke some pretty darn good stuff these days.

I see the possibility of your gloom and doom scenario, I just don't see the probability of it. Just like other certain doom scenarios have not played out.

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-Chris

You are making to light of this situation. I think it will have a negative impact on the karaoke hosting landscape. If it doesn't that means that PEP's efforts are feeble and don't need to be taken seriously. You can't have it both ways Chris. Jim would not go down this road, unless he thought there was a pot of gold at the end.

I have expressed my concerns about going after venues. But I do not believe it is going to change the overall landscape much at all. Certainly not to the extent you suggest and definitely not in a time period I am concerned with. I feel there are other factors that will change the landscape more than PEP going after venues.

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-Chris

So in your opinion PEP will accomplish little by going after the venues? That the impact will be minimal. In a way doesn't that mean that PEP can do little and that hosts should not be overly concerned with their efforts in this area? It is just another PEP ploy, trying to beat the brush and see if any birds fly out to shoot. That Jim and Kurt are just paper tigers, straw dogs.

That isn't what I am saying at all. I am saying that I don't believe PEP going after venues is going to have a widespread chilling effect on venues willing to host karaoke.

I see more complaints about hosts not finding work due to over saturation than I do about hosts getting told the venue is scared of karaoke.

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-Chris

Here you can't go into one venue without the rest of them hearing about it and just shutting down the entertainment for the night so that when they pop in nothing is happening and they have no evidence to use against the venue. A couple of weeks ago someone went in to investigate, got made and the rest the venues in town got calls warning them and I know that at least one of them cancelled their show. I guess that the person who was doing the investigation wasn't very good at hiding who they were and what they were doing.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

This plan will not solve the saturation issue one bit. PEP has already said their focus will not be on the pirate hosts but rather on the venues that hire them. Rather it is going to put pressure on the smaller number of venues in a given area. Making the saturation problem worse with fewer places to play for hosts.

This supports the point that the number of jobs will shrink and the saturation problem will only become worse, as venues curtail their karaoke activities. Thanks Dan.

LR - your logic simply does not pan out.

Saturation occurs because venues hire illegitimate operators.

If those venues are scared of karaoke, that's fine with me. I seek out the venues who operate with integrity.

The saturation dries up when venues decide to act with integrity and hire legit operators at a reasonable rate.

Venues need to understand the legal risk and the downside of hiring a shady operator for lousy pay.

The low-lifes tend to slink away when the light is turned on.

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Never the same show twice!

Your argument would hold water mtn. if the patrons cared about whether the host is legal or not. Most do not they want that mic in their hand at least once an hour or they find someplace else. The saturation problem as originally posed was on the host end, not the venue end.

My argument "holds water".

Your opinions do not amount to 1 single fact.

My patrons do care and they can tell the difference in quality.

My clients do care and they pay good money to get the best.

You constantly create these fantasy scenarios of negativity and then stake your claim on the "reality" of the situation.

My experience is much more positive and as the shady operators try and fail to get into the market, the venues that have attempted to succeed with them have failed. That is not saturation, that is the market shaking itself out.

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Never the same show twice!

Maybe your patrons do care Mtn. You are basing your opinions on what they have told you. I basing my opinions on what I have been told by patrons after years of dealing with them. I don't see why your opinions have anymore validity than mine they are both based on experience. We are sort of experts in our field right? There is just as good a chance that a pirate will succeed as a legit host, it all depends on talent. Some hosts have it some don't, you know what I'm talking about? You might be creating your own fantasy scenario?

You do this all the time... circular reasoning.

"Going after venues a good idea?"

Yes.

Going after venues will make them accountable for who they hire.

If all the scorched-earth rhetoric was valid, wouldn't it hold true that when the alphabet soups come after venues, all venues would just drop music and copyrighted works out of fear?

EDIT: To be clear, I did not say that one opinion was more valid than the other. I said one was negative and one was positive.

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Never the same show twice!

That is not what you said that my opinion was not based on facts, and really it is based on the same facts as your opinion when you analyze it, information obtained from patrons. It will make them accountable maybe, but it will also make them angry and they will take it out on karaoke hosts looking for work. I don't see anything positive about your opinion other that it may help some people, it will cause harm to others, that is negative. I don't think going after venues is a smart move on PEP's part as shown in Las Vegas, where the suits came back and bit SC in the backside. It is PEP itself that is taking the scorched-earth approach, since they realize they can't go after the home user abuser's, the hosts have nothing, that leaves the venues, which effects everyone still out there trying to work in the industry.

It is not affecting me.

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-Chris