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Sound Choice New Music -An acid test for future?
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Author:  jclaydon [ Thu Aug 20, 2015 4:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Sound Choice New Music -An acid test for future?
So with the promise of new music coming, hopefully stuff that has NEVER been produced before by ANYONE, Phonex has a REAL opportunity to test it's anti-piracy model.

Lot's of people are arguing that the actual GEM tracks have never been pirated. Some believe that it is because all these songs are available already on the Red Logo brand, others believe that its mostly because of the people that licensed the GEM series and because of the terms laid out in the agreement.

Since these tracks will NOT be available to the general karaoke community, there is a real opportunity to prove which theory is correct.

I for one, am anxiously awaiting the results,and hope this will provide a glimmer of hope for karaoke and karaoke producers in North America.

cheers

-James
Author:  Lonman [ Thu Aug 20, 2015 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Choice New Music -An acid test for future?
Is it positive these tracks will NOT be available to anyone other than certified, GEM & Help users? This line from their page make me think otherwise.
Quote:
That means you're guaranteed 8 songs for $30, but the more reservations we sell, the more songs you get for the same price. If we sell 400 reservations, you'll get 10 tracks. If we sell 480, you'll get 12 tracks. That's famous Sound Choice quality for only $2.50 per track. And you'll have these tracks before we release them for distribution to non-subscribers, and for less money, too.

Sounds to me the cert, gem, help users will get first crack & at a lower cost - although any higher then I doubt anyone else would be interested, the $3.75 per track (at 8 songs) is pushing the limit as it is.
Author:  jclaydon [ Thu Aug 20, 2015 4:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Choice New Music -An acid test for future?
My understanding, and I'm sure Jim will correct me if I am wrong, is that non-subscribers refers to those people who do not Purchase an Advance reservation, but are still either

1)Certified Hosts
2)Gem Licensees
3)HELP Licensees
4)Original Disc Based Sound Choice users


-James
Author:  JimHarrington [ Thu Aug 20, 2015 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Choice New Music -An acid test for future?
Advance tracks will not be available to non-licensees. If you are not compliant with our policies, you will not be able to obtain these tracks legally.
Author:  c. staley [ Thu Aug 20, 2015 4:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Choice New Music -An acid test for future?
HarringtonLaw wrote:
Advance tracks will not be available to non-licensees. If you are not compliant with our policies, you will not be able to obtain these tracks legally.

"Compliant with our policies" and "licensee" are two different animals.

"...tracks will not be available to non-licensees" then "compliant" means nothing.

Words mean things, remember?
Author:  jclaydon [ Thu Aug 20, 2015 4:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Choice New Music -An acid test for future?
Well there you have it, and whatever distribution method they end up using, as long as the master tracks are not connected to ANY network of ANY kind, they have a much better chance of controlling the supply

-James
Author:  doowhatchulike [ Thu Aug 20, 2015 4:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Choice New Music -An acid test for future?
Attempting to create a working model for the requirements of this new entity and the direction they are exploring will be no easy task. Models such as iTunes and Amazon's music purchasing services had a significant advantage that was able to make their direction successful: sheer volume.

Obviously, this model will lack severely in that regard, and that alone would seem a difficult hurdle. Without the volume factor, the consumers will pay dearly, if they are to achieve the margins one might assume they wish to occur, much less the margins experienced in the past. This new approach comes across to me as a compromise on the crowdsourcing approach, which many believe does not have a place in legitimate business ventures (some consider it receiving the benefit of back-door trading without having to pay dividends). Incidentally, I believe it was suggested at one point on these forums that a "Kickstarter" approach was being considered...
Author:  JimHarrington [ Thu Aug 20, 2015 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Choice New Music -An acid test for future?
The site is not ambiguous about who is eligible: HELP licensees, GEM series licensees, Certified KJs, and verified original disc-based hosts.

These tracks will not be made available to ineligible persons, and since we will know exactly who legally has them, it will be much easier to police them conclusively.
Author:  c. staley [ Thu Aug 20, 2015 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Choice New Music -An acid test for future?
HarringtonLaw wrote:
The site is not ambiguous about who is eligible: HELP licensees, GEM series licensees, Certified KJs, and verified original disc-based hosts.

These tracks will not be made available to ineligible persons, and since we will know exactly who legally has them, it will be much easier to police them conclusively.


Oh, I wouldn't count on it. "Police" simply means "control" because remember "90% of karaoke hosts are pirates" (your words, not mine) and some of them sell counterfeited discs.
Are they still "eligible?"

Besides, all the other ineligible ones will still be able to buy cheaper tracks, just as good with almost instant delivery. I can only imagine that your definition of "deliver electronically" really means on disc in mp3+g format.... just like your leased oldies collection.
Author:  Cueball [ Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Choice New Music -An acid test for future?
HarringtonLaw wrote:
Advance tracks will not be available to non-licensees. If you are not compliant with our policies, you will not be able to obtain these tracks legally.



Pep website wrote:
...That means you're guaranteed 8 songs for $30, but the more reservations we sell, the more songs you get for the same price....

... And you'll have these tracks before we release them for distribution to non-subscribers, and for less money, too.

Sound Choice Advance reservations are available only to HELP licensees, GEM series licensees, Sound Choice Certified KJs, and verified original disc-based KJs. If you don't fit into one of these categories, it's time to change that so you can enjoy the new music, too.



HarringtonLaw wrote:
The site is not ambiguous about who is eligible: HELP licensees, GEM series licensees, Certified KJs, and verified original disc-based hosts.

These tracks will not be made available to ineligible persons, and since we will know exactly who legally has them, it will be much easier to police them conclusively.

So far, all I see you talking about here is ADVANCED SALES. I think the point we are trying to ascertain is, AFTER the Advanced Sales have been made, will these tracks then become available for sale to the General Public (obviously at a higher price)? Although Lonnie did bring up a valid point... how many people out there are going to be willing to shell out OVER $30 for 8 (possibly 9, 10, 11, or 12) new song tracks on a new release? This is where we are saying the piracy would/could kick in.
Author:  jclaydon [ Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Choice New Music -An acid test for future?
cueball wrote:
HarringtonLaw wrote:
Advance tracks will not be available to non-licensees. If you are not compliant with our policies, you will not be able to obtain these tracks legally.



Pep website wrote:
...That means you're guaranteed 8 songs for $30, but the more reservations we sell, the more songs you get for the same price....

... And you'll have these tracks before we release them for distribution to non-subscribers, and for less money, too.

Sound Choice Advance reservations are available only to HELP licensees, GEM series licensees, Sound Choice Certified KJs, and verified original disc-based KJs. If you don't fit into one of these categories, it's time to change that so you can enjoy the new music, too.



HarringtonLaw wrote:
The site is not ambiguous about who is eligible: HELP licensees, GEM series licensees, Certified KJs, and verified original disc-based hosts.

These tracks will not be made available to ineligible persons, and since we will know exactly who legally has them, it will be much easier to police them conclusively.

So far, all I see you talking about here is ADVANCED SALES. I think the point we are trying to ascertain is, AFTER the Advanced Sales have been made, will these tracks then become available for sale to the General Public (obviously at a higher price)? Although Lonnie did bring up a valid point... how many people out there are going to be willing to shell out OVER $30 for 8 (possibly 9, 10, 11, or 12) new song tracks on a new release? This is where we are saying the piracy would/could kick in.


Asked and answered as far as I am concerned Cue. As i have already speculated, NON SUBSCRIBERS probably refers to anyone who qualifies but didn't buy a resrvation. Mr Harrington?

If this program takes off, there could be lots of possibilities of making these tracks available to eligible people for example,

1. If enough songs get made, they could offer it as a brand new pack of the GEM series
2. For a small additional fee, they could offer Advance tracks to HELP licensees so that they could have a source to quality music. One set of music, multiple platforms. And this would be even more legit because PEP retain the copyrights to the new music, which means stingray isn't involved/being infringed upon.
3. If they could get the proper licensing,they could sell invidual songs that have been produced for a slightly higher markup. When i was buying soundchoice custom discs, it averaged about $5 Canadian per track with the exchange rate. And i paid it quite happily if they were songs i really wanted.
Author:  Cueball [ Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Choice New Music -An acid test for future?
jclaydon wrote:
Asked and answered as far as I am concerned Cue. As i have already speculated, NON SUBSCRIBERS probably refers to anyone who qualifies but didn't buy a resrvation. Mr Harrington?


Not quite answered... Mr. Harrington?
Author:  Paradigm Karaoke [ Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Choice New Music -An acid test for future?
this could open up a whole new group of pirates. if you make the tracks hard to get and expensive to get legally, they become easier to steal than buy. if they are easier to buy than steal, they are more likely to buy than steal.
Author:  JimHarrington [ Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Choice New Music -An acid test for future?
The term "advance" is the name of the series. These tracks will not be made available to non-eligible persons at any point. If you don't reserve them, but you are otherwise eligible, you will be able to get them later, but they will cost more.

Also, since all tracks will have individual embedded graphics, along with other tracking codes and passive security measures, we will be able to track any pirated copies to the source and take action.
Author:  c. staley [ Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Choice New Music -An acid test for future?
HarringtonLaw wrote:
Also, since all tracks will have individual embedded graphics, along with other tracking codes and passive security measures, we will be able to track any pirated copies to the source and take action.


No, you won't....
It will be about as effective as MediaCloq was.
Author:  Paradigm Karaoke [ Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Choice New Music -An acid test for future?
HarringtonLaw wrote:
The term "advance" is the name of the series. These tracks will not be made available to non-eligible persons at any point. If you don't reserve them, but you are otherwise eligible, you will be able to get them later, but they will cost more.

if not for the "but it sight unseen" aspect, i like this way of thinking. would be the very first advantage to being certified since the program began.

HarringtonLaw wrote:
Also, since all tracks will have individual embedded graphics, along with other tracking codes and passive security measures, we will be able to track any pirated copies to the source and take action.

this idea makes a lot of sense. couldn't this be applied to tracks already under PEP control? sell all the GEM series tracks this way on download.
Author:  Lonman [ Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Choice New Music -An acid test for future?
jclaydon wrote:
When i was buying soundchoice custom discs, it averaged about $5 Canadian per track with the exchange rate. And i paid it quite happily if they were songs i really wanted.
As did I and happily paid it, the difference - I KNEW what I was getting!
Author:  jclaydon [ Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Choice New Music -An acid test for future?
Lonman wrote:
jclaydon wrote:
When i was buying soundchoice custom discs, it averaged about $5 Canadian per track with the exchange rate. And i paid it quite happily if they were songs i really wanted.
As did I and happily paid it, the difference - I KNEW what I was getting!



Yes, and when the songs get produced, those that did not buy an advance reservation, WILL know exactly what they are getting and if they want to pay extra for it, just like a custom soundchoice track, that was my point. The real question to me is "will they be able to get the licensing?"

Mr. Harrington has already taken some of our suggestions into consideration, and i would say that is at least a place to start.

If a list get's posted on the PEP site before voting starts, then i would call that a good start at least..

I have generally found -at least in my experience, that Kurt and Jim are willing to cooperate and listen to those that are willing to be rational and level headed.

Do i think the new music program as is is perfect? No. Do I think there could room for improvement? Absolutely. And I have voiced these concerns in the other thread.

What was Mr. Harrington's response? He basically said that PEP would consider it. Lot better than telling someone to take a hike, like a certain software devoper might have done.. :P

i for one, am willing to at least wait and see. And if it doesn't turn out the way i think it should, well I will cross that bridge when I come to it. I just prefer to be an optimist, yes it can be very disappointing, but it's better than the alternative FOR ME.

So far it has actually worked rather well. I have had several people say i would regret getting certified, nope not yet.

I have had several people basically tell me that i was a complete moron to get the GEM series before the EMI suit was settled, and that I have wasted my deposit because they will be recalled before I even recieve the discs. Nope still being sold thanks.

Staying positive and refusing to panic at every thing that comes along is working for me Your milage for yourself or your business may very..

cheers

-James
Author:  chrisavis [ Fri Aug 21, 2015 5:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Choice New Music -An acid test for future?
jclaydon wrote:
Lonman wrote:
jclaydon wrote:
When i was buying soundchoice custom discs, it averaged about $5 Canadian per track with the exchange rate. And i paid it quite happily if they were songs i really wanted.
As did I and happily paid it, the difference - I KNEW what I was getting!



Yes, and when the songs get produced, those that did not buy an advance reservation, WILL know exactly what they are getting and if they want to pay extra for it, just like a custom soundchoice track, that was my point. The real question to me is "will they be able to get the licensing?"

Mr. Harrington has already taken some of our suggestions into consideration, and i would say that is at least a place to start.

If a list get's posted on the PEP site before voting starts, then i would call that a good start at least..

I have generally found -at least in my experience, that Kurt and Jim are willing to cooperate and listen to those that are willing to be rational and level headed.

Do i think the new music program as is is perfect? No. Do I think there could room for improvement? Absolutely. And I have voiced these concerns in the other thread.

What was Mr. Harrington's response? He basically said that PEP would consider it. Lot better than telling someone to take a hike, like a certain software devoper might have done.. :P

i for one, am willing to at least wait and see. And if it doesn't turn out the way i think it should, well I will cross that bridge when I come to it. I just prefer to be an optimist, yes it can be very disappointing, but it's better than the alternative FOR ME.

So far it has actually worked rather well. I have had several people say i would regret getting certified, nope not yet.

I have had several people basically tell me that i was a complete moron to get the GEM series before the EMI suit was settled, and that I have wasted my deposit because they will be recalled before I even recieve the discs. Nope still being sold thanks.

Staying positive and refusing to panic at every thing that comes along is working for me Your milage for yourself or your business may very..

cheers

-James


Thank you for this post, James. Well put.
Author:  audioprola [ Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Choice New Music -An acid test for future?
Does anyone know when new production will begin.
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