Karaoke Forums

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-- Mark

And STILL you obsess over this stuff. You have NOTHING better to post about.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

I don't know about Insane KJ's obsessions, but I do think this is a clear indication of the direction Kurt and Jim are heading. They are going after the venues with insurance policies instead of KJ's. This suit names Toshihiko Kida of Karaoke Champ who are responsible for a large number of "Karaoke Box" type of bars (more than 50). These bars claim more than 100,000 songs and 100 new releases per month. They generate huge revenues and have been flying under the radar for a long time. These type of bars are gaining in popularity and not just for Asian clients:

http://www.en.univaamerica.com/portfolio/shout-karaoke-project/

Well this looks to be a whole lot more damaging to PEP than the average pirate KJ.
A good example of the type of people they should be going after...

It WOULD make more sense.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

See, I find that attitude a bit odd.

Why should small-time pirates get a pass, just because they're not the biggest pirates? Collectively, the small-time pirates do much more damage than the big pirates do.

Our policy has always been to go after pirates where we find them, large or small. Nothing has changed in that regard.

I don't know if they are the same group/outfit but there is a bar here in Alberta that is using a jukebox system as described above and they definitely have a large amount of sound choice branded tracks on it. It even has the same crappy graphics that you usually find for the Eagles tracks.

On a different note, now that Brian has answered my questions about import charges for the GEM series, I just have to get my paperwork. Unfortunately it will have to wait until June now cause I just used the deposit to pay for a broken window in my trailer *grrr*

Life is interesting when you are living on a very strict budget *lol*

-james

And why not? Over 90% of KJ's across the U.S. are using SC material and never paid for it. As a result, it's forced SC to go out of business. No company can survive if people are stealing your products instead of buying them.

If it was me, I would be doing the same thing as SC. Piracy has not only hurt SC but hurts us all as well. Ask yourself: Are you happy about losing jobs to pirates? Are you happy about taking a lower rate of pay because of pirates?

I would continue to go after each and every one. Keep those lawsuits coming, SC. Maybe in time people might just start to get it.

Bottom line...

If you want to use our stuff, then pay for it bi*ch!

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

agreed, but remember, the biggest loss to SC was NOT from KJ's, but form singers. we all have a dozen or more singers that have every SC song ever made and never paid a penny for it. not saying the pirates are not douches and do not desirve to get hit, but they did NOT put SC out of business.

in almost 9 years have not lost a single job to a pirate (though they come in to my venues quite often) if YOU are losing jobs to pirates, the problem is not with the pirate...

go sue them, get what was taken from them, but keep your nose clean as well. the biggest point is investigate. Jim says they do, Many others say they don't. there is proof they don't, they have no proof they do. but get the pirates and i am all for it.


agreed, i think EMI said the same thing...

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Losing a venue to a pirate probably varies on the market You are in. When they can multi-rig, hire the venue out and make a few bucks off each hired gun then after a little more than a year of doing that
they have made enough money to buy the GEM series from PEP off of each show. And guess what? They keep the show and where do you think that leaves us legal hosts? GEM Series is pennies on the dollar compared to a legal hosts investments. This whole stuff is making me sick. Kurt has given the analogy of someone breaking and entering your home and leaving with stuff and how bad that is. So, then, Kurt and Jim, why the heck reward them? If you're going to sue them then sue them. Shaking their hand is crap. You know, something is rotten in Denmark and it is not with those who have supported SC or PEP. If you guys were in a pulpit you would pray the Mafia Don into heaven. I'm just sayin'.

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You can never argue with a crazy mi-mi-mi-mi-mi-mind ----B. Joel
I have great faith in fools; My friends call it self-confidence ---- E.A. Poe
I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity ----E.A. Poe
I don't know, I don't care, and it doesn't make any difference! ----A. Einstein
Double bubble, toil and trouble ----W. Shakespeare & Walt Disney
I hate it when I get on FaceBook ----Me
Karaoke might be Groundhog Day ----?
Of All the Martial Arts, Karaoke Inflicts the Most Pain ----?

I tend to agree with you. These people (pirates), have made money off of Kurt's products and he hasn't received a single penny from it. Yes, I would sue them... out of business!

They have hurt his business and they have hurt our business. I wouldn't offer them anything! They don't deserve it.

It's like saying: OK, I know you've raped my daughter but if you marry her, I won't press charges.

So now enter SC who says: I know you've stolen from us, hurt our business, hurt fellow KJ's businesses and hurt the entire industry. But, just buy our stuff and we'll let you go.

I don't know if I would be as nice and forgiving as SC.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

but keep in mind, PEP is just a business. collecting money for what was made. you stole it, you pay for it, business transaction done. you are thinking from a host point of view and doing the right thing for everybody, that is not the point of PEP. PEP is in business for PEP and IF it lowers piracy...great, if not...as long as they get paid. not knocking them for that, it is actually the way most businesses think and the ones who don't are the exceptions.

"So now enter SC who says: I know you've stolen from us, hurt our business, (so just pay for it) hurt fellow KJ's businesses (not their problem) and hurt the entire industry.(not their problem) But, just buy our stuff and we'll let you go."(business in America)

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

How does it hurt my business to be put on to a more level playing field? It could actually left up the rates for the entire industry if pirates had to compensate for what they have to pay for.

yeah, yeah, yeah......I know it is a stretch, but I think that is all any of us really want - to compete at the same level against people based on our merits and not against people who lower the bar.

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-Chris

Sadly, that's not the real world.. Think lowest common <fill in the blank>..

And the hits keep on coming!

https://dockets.justia.com/search?parti ... e=new_york

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-- Mark

How about just letting us know what happened at the END of the case, and how much money was ACTUALLY paid out (not how much the judgement was)?

there are no wins, no judgements paid.
now, if i get shown wins and judgements paid i will gladly change my mind and opinion, but those are never to be revealed. i can go sue you for stealing my car because i drive the same car and mine got stolen, doesn't mean i was right, investigated anything, or win.
if filing the suit counts as "the hits keep coming"...SC has been hit and lost a whole lot more.
again, Insane, doesn't your boss have something for you to do while the adults talk about things that matter to our businesses?

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

OK well here is a possible scenario that doesn't help anyone...

Pirates not using SC will not be caught...by anyone. Assuming that Sound Choice collects evidence only in relation to their own product, if they are only looking for Sound Choice songs, and they DON'T find it, then the spotters etc move on and the pirates keep on doing what they do. No fear to pirates unless other publishers climb on board and do EXACTLY the same thing as Sound Choice.

BUT if say, Zoom starts in, and follows the same business model as Sound Choice, Legal KJs may have to pay TWO licence fees to work, Now add Chartbuster, and other Karaoke manufacturers in the mix, and well karaoke becomes DOA to all but the pirates.

Pirates will STILL and ALWAYS lower the market value for the rest of us! The smarter ones might read the boards and know if they haven't been caught yet, to just dump their SC holdings and continue on. This is fine for Sound Choice: they might be a little worried about the legal KJs in the market because that is their revenue source, but its mostly self interest, and protection of its rights. But it is still bad out there for the KJs, even without Sound Choice doing what its best to protect itself.

An establishment only cares about whats in the register at the end of the night. Ask them if they like karaoke prices when all they get is water drinkers and no tips. If someone comes in with 50,000 non Sound Choice catalog and plays for $100/night, it leaves the Sound Choice KJs (and other legit KJs) out in the cold, one more revenue stream closed to Sound Choice as the legal guys fall off the map. Sound Choice does not promise (rightfully) a KJ any more or less money to be made by being legal with them.

Before you hand me the "get what they pay for line" If the difference is $100-$150 between me and the pirate, it wont matter how many singers I can draw, or how good my equipment is, etc. its totally going to be based on the price. Unless your not paying anything (a completely DIFFERENT pirate if you will), you are not keeping 100% of what you bring home. Taxes, Insurance, purchasing, maintenance, etc all eat up your bottom line. You can't compete with someone who is not paying for anything.

I don't know about you, but places around here just aren't paying big money for off-nights, or even weekends anymore for that matter. There is a lot of competition, and not just in terms of karaoke. As they just hire out, they are not worried about if the KJ is legal or not. Some even want to 'try then buy' to see if you are all that your cracked up to be. Who can afford that nonsense? Specially if you are paying for more then one rig legally.

I am not saying Sound Choice is wrong to pursue its interests, I am all for it. I bet I could make a hell of lot more money if there werent any pirates around. I am just saying that I'm not foolish to think that these tactics helps anyone but Sound Choice, not legal KJs or the industry as a whole.

Just my $.02 on the whole thing right now.
TM

i somewhat agree toastedmuffin (????) but SC has not done any of that. they are not putting the pirates out of business, they are not putting the drive sellers out of business, now they are going after the self owned bar systems. that pirate down the road from you....will never be hit. none of them are. just ask around here, many here have been here for a long time and have yet to see anything. report the pirate...nothing. the legit host gets sued and has to pay for audits and attorney fees to finally be dismissed while the pirates gt the same treatment without the audit or attorney fees. no one has paid damages, no one is out of business, but what HAS happened since this business model came into effect is more manufacturers have gone out of business over licensing fees, Musicians have instituted a karaoke no fly list and pulled their licenses from everyone (originally in the U.S., but after publisher pressure is now worldwide) the entire PRSforMusic licensing program that the rest of the world uses has been closed off to the U.S. for licensing, overseas manufacturers are beginning to be restricted on selling to the U.S., and so far there has not been one single positive that has come from this model.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

If you can't compete against pirates AND get your rates up, then you aren't doing it right.

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-Chris