Karaoke Forums

Spoke to some friends tonight. DJs and pro singers. THEY are also running into problems finding tracks ALREADY.

The fun ( read long dry spell) is just starting to commence.

I am posting to remind the pro SC methodologists of my prediction from way back.

It is my opinion that the publishers/owners are awake and they are PISSED.

In my opinion, the major reason for this - as predicted - is that SC had the absolute AUDACITY to start suing folks for their useless trademark being displayed, when it was the MUSIC - the giants' property , and often distributed without proper licensing - that was important to any show, be it karaoke, DJ, or backing tracks. Unfortunately, I understand this. What a set of cajones on SC's part, considering how many questionable tracks they put out - whether later settled or not.

They not only trespassed on what I believe to be others's rights, but did so in a legally loud manner. THEY are the cause of what is to come. Do they care? Of course not, as they are no longer players in the industry. Might they be again? Rumor hath it that they will. Will they be successful in the long run? Given their level of past unbelievable mismanagement and the same helmsman I would highly doubt it.

As the licensing dries up and music sources disappear, remember to thank the failed karaoke producer SC, and ALL those who supported them in their efforts.

SC made the noise, SC woke the big boys, SC is - in my opinion - the cause of what is to come. Ya heard it here first.....

Ok, done venting. Thank you for putting up with me....

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Piracy and the Digital Age woke up the publishers. They are scrambling to get control of their product and to get as much money as they can from it. Publishers were suing DJs before SC ever started their suits. File sharers were being sued before SC ever started their suits.

As artists have to make their money from touring rather than music sales now, there is a move to try to make music sales a viable product again. What we are seeing is a clamping down of that product in an attempt to gain control of it and be able to charge more. It is happening on every level.

The suing may or may not have something to do with it. I would think the licensing method used for GEM would be a bigger hit with them then the suing.

But they are not just flexing with karaoke reproduction. They are flexing in the streaming area as well. I would lean much more toward this being a deal where they saw several areas where they thought they were not getting paid as they should and, as gentleman from the UK said, it's taken them two years to get this far.

We all figured they would eventually try to close the loops on imports. So far, they have a few who have closed the door and they got their no fly list support.

....

I don't believe for a moment that SC is the catalyst for this. I believe it is $$$ pure and simple.

Karaoke is a multi-$$$$$ dollar business.

I have seen widely varying numbers on how many KJ's there are in the US. One of the smallest numbers I have seen is 30,000. So the simple math is 30,000 X $150 (1 show a week) = $4,500,000. I believe there are more KJ's than that and they average more then 1 show per week so we can probably double that to $9,000,000.

That is just a weak estimate on what KJ's are pulling in on revenue each and every week delivering karaoke shows. There isn't a business in the world that wouldn't want a piece of that pie.

Now add in the sales of discs/downloads/streaming to KJ's.
Now add in the sales of discs/downloads/streaming to singers/enthusiasts.
Now add in the licensing fees paid by karaoke manufacturers.

I am not even going to attempt to estimate those numbers.

But I would be willing to bet that when it is all added up, there are many, many millions (if not ONE BILLION dollars) per year on the table. Just in the United States.

The Publishers have seen their profit margins become very thin with the loss of physical media revenues. They have seen iTunes, Pandora, last.fm, Spotify and now Amazon carve out their piece of the profits further reducing their margins. All the while the Publishers have smart people and a bunch of attorneys looking at ways to efficiently monetize what is already in place.

SC didn't cause this. Good old fashioned capitalism and greed caused this.

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-Chris

I can't argue against your perspective, Chris. I do have to question how Spotify, ITunes, Pandora and Amazon have cut into the publishers profits? If anything, those delivery systems should be generating more profits than cutting into them. If they are not getting their part, then those rooms of smart people haven't been doing a very good job to this point. And maybe they haven't. Maybe the streaming side of things isn't Producer Friendly, but it seems the Itunes, Amazon thing should be generating revenue.

The likes of iTunes have helped save the music industry. That really can't be questioned. But they are in such a position of power at this point they can demand bigger slices of the pie, or block you all-together -

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2014 ... /10730315/

But the bigger issue is that anytime you let someone else do something for you, you are paying the price for it. Every penny they lose to a distribution partner, they want to get back in some other way.

Not to mention that they do own the rights and they have the right to protect the content. They haven't done so with karaoke very well or often until recently. It is essentially a brand new revenue stream for them and they will do something with it.

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-Chris

Things aren't so bad, so you won't be able to get any new material, big deal, most of it can't be applied to regular karaoke anyway and have it sound right. It is still possible to do Golden Oldies shows with the existing material out here, and you still have the single largest segment of society the "Baby Boomers" for the next 20 years or so. It just may well be that the peak of Karaoke has been reached and now it is making way for the next entertainment format. That eventually it will go the way of player pianos, jukeboxes, disco and mechanical bulls.

Lone Ranger - You keep saying this over and over, but in reality, the Baby Boomer generation is NOT as large as you think. The Baby Boomers are defined as those born from 1946 to 1964. So people currently 50-68 (we'll call it 70 for easy math)

The census figures from 2012 indicate that the US population of those 50-69 is ~ 73 Million.
The segment of the population that is 20-39 is 82 million. (larger)
The segment of the population that is 30-49 is 81 million. (larger)

Sure, the baby boomers currently have more expendable income, but they are also (forgive me) dying off a lot faster than the other two age groups.

Strength in numbers and the fact that there are a LOT more 20-40 year olds in bars than 50-70 year olds and I feel it is a pretty safe bet to continue catering to the younger generations.

Data Link - http://www.census.gov/population/age/data/files/2012/2012gender_table1.xlsx

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-Chris

Thanks for the numbers Chris, still when we are talking about entertainment the higher disposable income level trumps the few million extra, in the other groups. These younger customers are saddled with huge student loan debt right out of the box, or the expense of raising children, not to mention the expense of their own retirement due to their belief that SS will not be there for them. There are still enough Baby Boomers to go around due to improvements in health care and longer life spans. There will be such a large elderly population over the next 20 years or more that it may bankrupt our Social Safety Net. Unless changes are made in the systems for future retirees.

P.S. Chris you or I don't know if these younger future target markets are even going to want to do karaoke, they may think it is for older folks.

who really cares?

I just want someone to put out music so I can keep a crowd coming in.

I'm tired of the bitching, and complaining. I did it to. i'm done cause no matter what
is said it won't change the industry.

as long as I can find new music, that's where my business will be.

in my neighborhood, businesses come and go every year and no one bitches about it.
karaoke companies can do the same. because when one shuts it's doors another will
open up and continue on until they get shut down or just go out of business.

so in my words quit crying and get back to work. while the work is still there!
because it may not be in the future for use karaoke hosts.

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It's all good!

Upon reflection:

I tend to agree with Chris's interpretation, but I'll also say that Joe isn't entirely wrong. (Just mostly.)

SC's enforcement work has made enough noise for the publishers to become aware of the available pot of money. (How do I know this? From actually talking to publishers.) But SC has long-term, personal relationships with the licensing people at publishers, and we've been talking this up for a long time--not just for the five years we've been doing suits, but for several years before that. I have yet to speak to anyone at any publisher who has expressed the barest bit of resentment that SC is doing enforcement work. But Joe talked to some DJs and pro singers, so he's OBVIOUSLY in a better position to judge.

Joe's position ignores the fact that a portion of the money that SC gains from lawsuits goes into the pockets of the publishers. The simple fact is that the publishers want to get paid. They don't care where the money comes from; they care about the amount. They also recognize that while these lawsuits use trademark infringement as the vehicle to stop defendants' piracy, they are effective at stopping copyright infringement, too.

(It's the same reason why the government was happy to put Al Capone in jail for tax evasion, even though he committed many other serious crimes. The point is in putting an end to the conduct.)

The publishers' recent efforts to clamp down on foreign-sourced material are mostly about enforcing the rate differential between foreign royalties and U.S. royalties, and a little bit about re-gaining control of their catalogues.

I care.

I want quality sound recordings. As we see the companies that make quality products go under or get blocked from distributing to the US, we will be left with budget houses throwing together crappy versions of tracks.

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-Chris

Come on Chris we all know why this is happening, the rest of the world can agree about copyright law and get on with production. It is only in the U.S.A. that we continue to be out of step with our old outdated copyright laws, that were established way back in the early 1800's. Just like special interests have kept America from signing any agreements to help fight global warming, even though the sea levels keep rising and the poles shrink.

James,
How does this work?

In order to avoid trademark infringement in the future, the infringer has to buy legitimate original product or get out of the business. In either case, the infringement ends.

But how do the publishers get paid when SC wins a suit? SC bought the product from a company that paid the PRS fees. If SC sells a GEM from that, how does the publishers get paid? Does SC have to pay more for each set they sell?

Aside from the money the publishers already received from the GEM licensing, the revenue SC generates from lawsuits, in part, goes to support other royalty-generating activities, including non-GEM products, and it gets us closer to making new music.

Shouldn't this be "What hath Piracy wrought?"

Damn you SC! If you had just quietly gone bankrupt while being raped of your music this never would have happened! How dare you!

Thank you..