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| Kjams says Tricerasoft is legal for US users https://mail.karaokescene.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=29982 |
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| Author: | DMX Karaoke [ Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Kjams says Tricerasoft is legal for US users |
Hi Fellas, I was looking at the Kjams forum and saw a post about the No-Fly list and mentioned the same response I got from Universal regarding the legality of Tricerasoft in the US that I posted here. As I said earlier, my goal was to have legal access to the US market under the cover of proper US licensing. Since Kjams uses Tricera as a song shop for their player, I would have the benefit of my tracks being available to their customers as well. The moderator responded and promptly locked the thread. Quote: What I have heard is that it's fine (ie: perfectly legal and fully licensed) to buy TriceraSoft tracks even if you live in the US. I am not sure if the moderator of their forum really knows what he is talking about and whether he can speak for the company. I suppose either they know something that the rest of us don't or they are willing to do business with a target on their backs. |
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| Author: | Smoothedge69 [ Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kjams says Tricerasoft is legal for US users |
I will buy from Tricerasoft til they get shut down. I don't care. They are affordable, and they are user friendly. If you want my business, you will add your stuff to theirs. I will gladly buy from you!! |
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| Author: | chrisavis [ Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kjams says Tricerasoft is legal for US users |
Tricerasoft is a reseller. They are not creating the tracks in questions. They are not involved in the licensing to create karaoke tracks. I don't know enough about the distribution licensing to know if they have to negotiate that themselves or if that is part of the licensing the OEM's negotiate as a part of producing the original tracks. Mr. Entertainer specifically lists SelectATrack as their source for buying downloads of their products. http://www.mrentertainer.co.uk/ SBI has their own download store. I sent them an email asking if SelectAtrack and KaraokeDownloads.ca were authorized resellers. Sunfly has their own download store. I sent them an email asking if SelectAtrack and KaraokeDownloads.ca were authorized resellers. Abraxa appears to be a sub-division of SBI. Basically what I believe to be true is that so long as the OEM's have secured the proper distribution licensing, then any authorized resellers should be able to sell the products in the approved formats. |
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| Author: | DMX Karaoke [ Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kjams says Tricerasoft is legal for US users |
Quote: Basically what I believe to be true is that so long as the OEM's have secured the proper distribution licensing, then any authorized resellers should be able to sell the products in the approved formats. I disagree... A digital reseller must have licensing agreements in place with the publishers in the territories they serve. iTunes has one in every country that they sell to. The content they offer in Europe is somewhat different than what is sold in the US because the agreements vary. Karaoke Version, Selectatrack and Customburn all specifically state on their sites with whom they license through and SAT and CB have both been on this forum to say that they don't have the ability to sell in US as it falls outside of the territory that PRS covers. The resellers are the ones collecting the money for sales and are responsible to provide reports to the publishers and pay for the use of the content. As a manufacturer, we agree to supply our tracks to a reseller for an agreed price per download or disc. The reseller is responsible to report to the licensing society and pay the fees. The fact that TriceraSoft has no agreement with a major publisher like Universal for sales into the US and has stated that they don't even pursue US customers could be problematic. Especially when a US company like Kjams has their song shop embedded in the software for direct sale to the user. PRS does not cover US and Canada Universal says Tricera has no license for US sales Tricera sells to US directly via it's own sites and Kjams and keeps all the proceeds that would normally go to pay the publishers. And we wonder why the karaoke industry has difficulty be looked at seriously my the music industry |
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| Author: | Paradigm Karaoke [ Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kjams says Tricerasoft is legal for US users |
so the manus pay all licenses, then to sell it the reseller has to pay those licenses again? that sounds bizarre. |
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| Author: | Smoothedge69 [ Sun Jun 29, 2014 12:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kjams says Tricerasoft is legal for US users |
Paradigm Karaoke wrote: so the manus pay all licenses, then to sell it the reseller has to pay those licenses again? that sounds bizarre. That to me doesn't make sense. Does ACE Karaoke pay license fees to distribute karaoke music? I don't believe that Tricerasoft has to pay licensing to sell their products. So going by that logic, KJams is selling Tricerasoft songs, then the mfr would be paying license fees, tricerasoft would be paying, then so would KJams. BULL. Then, on top of that, the PROs would be collecting royalties for performance. No. That is TOO much greed. |
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| Author: | DMX Karaoke [ Sun Jun 29, 2014 12:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kjams says Tricerasoft is legal for US users |
No...the reseller pays the royalties on the sales of the content. In the US a retailer like iTunes or Amazon uses an approved company like https://www.musicreports.com/web/clients.php to handle the reports and payments for the sale of the content. Otherwise, the retailer is responsible to have the agreements in place and handle it themselves. The manufacturers are not paying license fees. TriceraSoft sells a Sunfly song. It pays SF a fee for their cut. Because the sale is conducted in Canada, the license fee should be paid to the collection society that has the agreement in the region it is sold. If Sunfly creates a new song tomorrow, they don't pay any license to sell the song. They don't contact all the publishers of the song to get it cleared for use.... The PRS does it for them. It gets put into a report to PRS when they sell it in UK territory - end of story. If the same song gets sold elsewhere, the license needs to be reported and paid there. |
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| Author: | DMX Karaoke [ Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kjams says Tricerasoft is legal for US users |
i think part of the confusion here is that in the US, if a manu wants to make a new song there are very big differences: In USA 1. Have a license agreement in place with publisher 2. Create song 3. Research writers/publishers 4. Submit an approval request 5. *Sell song and pay respective publisher(s) *The manu has to submit to the publishers how he will distribute the content. That also has to be approved! The publisher will be paid on the sales according the the deal reached. In UK 1. Create song 2. Sell song and report and pay to PRS (if selling direct like SF or SBI on their own sites) 3. Offer song to others to sell, get a percentage for use and let them report to PRS (Mr Entertainer lets Selectatrack sell it's songs) and the seller has to have a license with PRS and has to report and pay fees. |
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| Author: | Smoothedge69 [ Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kjams says Tricerasoft is legal for US users |
DMX Karaoke wrote: i think part of the confusion here is that in the US, if a manu wants to make a new song there are very big differences: In USA 1. Have a license agreement in place with publisher 2. Create song 3. Research writers/publishers 4. Submit an approval request 5. *Sell song and pay respective publisher(s) *The manu has to submit to the publishers how he will distribute the content. That also has to be approved! The publisher will be paid on the sales according the the deal reached. In UK 1. Create song 2. Sell song and report and pay to PRS (if selling direct like SF or SBI on their own sites) 3. Offer song to others to sell, get a percentage for use and let them report to PRS (Mr Entertainer lets Selectatrack sell it's songs) and the seller has to have a license with PRS and has to report and pay fees. Well, it's all pretty convoluted, ridiculous, and overly complicated. |
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| Author: | DMX Karaoke [ Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kjams says Tricerasoft is legal for US users |
I couldn't agree more. And yet it accurately describes the process that US manus have had to deal with for years... |
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| Author: | Lord Burnstrum [ Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kjams says Tricerasoft is legal for US users |
chrisavis wrote: Tricerasoft is a reseller. They are not creating the tracks in questions. They are not involved in the licensing to create karaoke tracks. What about the brand "Karaoke2Go"? I thought they were Tricera's own brand of karaoke label.
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| Author: | Alan B [ Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kjams says Tricerasoft is legal for US users |
DMX Karaoke wrote: I couldn't agree more. And yet it accurately describes the process that US manus have had to deal with for years... This whole thing is so convoluted that I think I'm going to get out of the karaoke business and become a Walmart Greeter. 
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| Author: | jdmeister [ Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kjams says Tricerasoft is legal for US users |
Alan B wrote: DMX Karaoke wrote: I couldn't agree more. And yet it accurately describes the process that US manus have had to deal with for years... This whole thing is so convoluted that I think I'm going to get out of the karaoke business and become a Walmart Greeter. That's how I made more $$$. |
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| Author: | jclaydon [ Sun Jun 29, 2014 12:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kjams says Tricerasoft is legal for US users |
Alan B wrote: DMX Karaoke wrote: I couldn't agree more. And yet it accurately describes the process that US manus have had to deal with for years... This whole thing is so convoluted that I think I'm going to get out of the karaoke business and become a Walmart Greeter. "welcome to walmart... get your sh*t and get out" i love jeff dunham.. this whole thing is just as ridiculous |
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| Author: | Smoothedge69 [ Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kjams says Tricerasoft is legal for US users |
"I work at burger king, I wear paper hats!! Would you like an apple pie with that!! Ding goes the bell, can't find the bell, where is the bell Ding fries are done, ding fries are done!!!" |
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| Author: | JoeChartreuse [ Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kjams says Tricerasoft is legal for US users |
Just want to throw licensed usage in a U.S. based show. Selling is one thing, usage another. Just adding a little more convolution.... 
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| Author: | Bazza [ Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kjams says Tricerasoft is legal for US users |
DMX Karaoke wrote: The moderator responded and promptly locked the thread. Quote: What I have heard is that it's fine (ie: perfectly legal and fully licensed) to buy TriceraSoft tracks even if you live in the US. I am not sure if the moderator of their forum really knows what he is talking about I think he knows exactly what he is talking about by the interesting choice of words he used. He replied "What I have heard is that it's fine (ie: perfectly legal and fully licensed) to buy TriceraSoft tracks." BUT that isn't what you wanted to know, is it. "Legal and licensed to BUY" is a much different question from "Legal and licensed to USE in a public performance". |
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| Author: | Paradigm Karaoke [ Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kjams says Tricerasoft is legal for US users |
well, Jim has stated that there is no use license. there is no "Home Use" or "Pro Use" license to be had. ok for public performance is licensed by the venue paying the associated PRO for the rights holder (ASCAP, SESAC, BMI, or any combination of the three depending on how many rights holders there are). Even on the discs "unauthorized public performance"...only the PRO's can authorize public performance, even the publishers can not authorize that themselves. that authorization is given as long as the venues pay the correct PRO. |
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| Author: | jclaydon [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kjams says Tricerasoft is legal for US users |
As far as I am concerned, if the tracks are ok to buy then they are ok to use. USE implies performance. Performance fees are the responsibility of the venue by paying Socan in Canada and the big 3 in the US. Shouldn't matter if its discs or downloads. that's my take on it, and until someone proves otherwise in a court of law, that's what I am going to stick to. |
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| Author: | chrisavis [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kjams says Tricerasoft is legal for US users |
I sent inquiries to both Sunfly and SBI asking if SelectATrack and KaraokeDownloads.ca were authorized resellers of their tracks. Both replied - Yes. So at the very least, if the tracks were licensed for production properly by SunFly and SBI, and I am purchasing from an authorized reseller, then I feel I have done my due diligence. |
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