Karaoke Forums

just had a great time with friends at a bar with karaoke 7 nights a week. nice hard drive running SC and CB material and un-certified.....also not bothered. i guess the mom and pop single ops are the real dangers here huh? they obviously have the "investigators" tied up to the point of missing all the multi ops out here.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Since I have been retired I have noticed some PC users with large HD's have filled in some of the void I left behind. Once in a while I check out shows that have taken over former venues, some last a week, a month some are quite good. Jim commented the reason I was never investigated is because I used no SC, but the biggest reason he gave was there no manu activity in my area. Southern California is quite a large market not to have any activity, but then again the courts have not been too friendly out here, to shake down lawsuits.

So once again we have a few high profile areas that get blitzed over and over again, while large parts of the country are untouched by this legal feeding frenzy. This reinforces my belief that these suits are just to set examples and drive sales, and will never succeed in really solving the piracy problems. No matter how much the pro legal process hosts hope they will, and provide some benefit to themselves. You are right Paradigm if the manus have limited resources to go after illegals they should focus on the big multi operations. They are wasting their time with the small fry, the smaller host have no ties to the community, which means generally speaking, they can pack up their traveling show and be out of town.

The show at my old bar is hard drive. The guy running it isn't the owner and wouldn't know anything about what's going on. The guy does a very good job. Better than some of the people I had working for me.

I have been to many hard drive shows over the years. Some of them run with great sound, dynamic hosts, and great crowds. But the hosts are still thieves.

For the ones that are local to me now, if I stumble into one, I have fun with my friends for that one night, then I never go back. The only real control I have is to not support the show and not send people to see the show. The rest is out of my hands.

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-Chris

I don't worry about the pirates. I take their shows from them on a regular basis. One operation in my area runs 6 rigs nightly, I have gotten 2 of their shows in the last year and charge the bars more than the pirates. Yes there are shows out there that are well run but for the most part the illegally loaded hard drive buyers are no talent wannabe's. They get drunk on their shows and the bar owners get tired of it. Hence my extra price for a weekly show that is well run and attracts a better crowd is worth more than having 250k songs.
I say if you're gonna try to undercut my price and take my show fine...come on with it...You better bring your "A" Game, not your hard drive, because when it comes down to it your hard drive isn't gonna make your show magically better.

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KLAM Entertainment..."Come Out Of Your Shell And Sing"

your right, it is out of our hands, i am just irritated that the ones being hassled and taken to court are the mom and pop single ops but these guys and the rest of the pirate multi ops never hear a single word from SC.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

When SC swept through FL a couple years ago, they definitely got more than a couple big multi-ops I know of, so I'm not sure this is really true. They may not have pursued those particular guys quite yet, but they certainly don't avoid multi-ops as a rule.

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C Mc
KJ, FL

That was a couple of years ago, what have they done in your area if anything lately? Unless there is a constant presence it is like the police making drug or prostitution sweeps it clears up the problem for awhile, it is not a long term solution.

unfortunately AZ seems to be a different story. and which one, there was only 4 total.
this is not the only at all. i know the one i personally handed to Kurt, and then two years later to Jim, is still untouched with 7 rigs a 1 mostly full set of discs is still running. how long was Starz let go without a word? but single op mom & pops are sued, hosts that dont even work for the sued venues get sued, venues that pirate get let go for firing said hosts (that never worked there to begin with), etc.
sorry, you go through the list and they are suing single op mom & pops and ignoring multi ops.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

This is just a guess Paradigm since I'm not privy to the inner workings of the SC legal process, or their ultimate goals. It would seem at least to me that the object is to achieve as many cheap bloodless victories as possible. There by racking up a large number of settlements without really having to go to court and have a trial. The little mom and pops have limited resources and probably can't afford legal counsel. Nobody is going to appoint a public defender in a civil trial. If the defendant is not a flight risk and has ties to the community, they will probably given into SC's pressure and settle. Thus this aspect of the legal process and the threat of suits forcing the hosts to take a course of action they would otherwise rather not. How many times does this play out on a daily basis, the cost of fighting the suit even if you are innocent, is more than just settling? SC is banking on the fact most will not fight back and will pay up to be left alone. Once the host settles he is tarred with the brush of being a pirate who bought off SC, at least in the opinion of other hosts that frequent this forum. I just wonder if SC will be considered the same if EMI prevails in it's suit, or what is more likely some settlement is made.

Given this scenario it would not be in SC's best interest to aggressively go after the larger multi-operators. Here we have deeper pockets, and a company that has far more to lose than the simple mom and pop operation. There is a greater chance they will hire a lawyer and counter sue, bogging down SC in a long costly legal battle that SC might lose. It also increases the chance of finding out the legal basis on which these suits were build on are weak, and shifting sand and cannot survive a real legal challenge. It is not only the suits that drive sales it is the threat of suits, and those suits being settled quickly and cheaply, since there is not much money in this in the first place. The Panama city awards only totaled the retail value of the product in question around 5,000.00 each. One defendant without a lawyer in the case walked and didn't pay a dime, because he fought back. That is why ultimately these suits will cease once SC determines the cost reward ratio is just not there. It might take some time or a huge legal loss aka EMI to bring them around, but I think it is going to happen.

My guess is that they are consuming a lot of resources on the one big multi-op case they have been pursuing in AZ. Here in Seattle, Sound Choice did sue at least one long running, large multi-op. I don't see them in the list of certified folks/GEM owners and have heard nothing in the grapevine about the case. The multi-op is still working though some of the venues have changed.

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-Chris

We're currently proceeding against three large multi-system operators in Arizona, two in Phoenix and one in Tucson.

Starz Karaoke submitted to and passed an audit of its systems, voluntarily and before any suit was filed.

Proceeding, does that mean you are still investigating, or you have actually filed a suit against these multi-system operators in Arizona? I would think there are many more than two operating in Arizona. If Starz passed the audit that means they are off the legal radar, right? Who are you using to do the investigating in Arizona since APS is no longer your principal contractor in these matters Jim?

[quote="HarringtonLaw"]We're currently proceeding against three large multi-system operators in Arizona, two in Phoenix and one in Tucson.[\quote]
Ok, I'll bite, who are they?

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Wired for Sound
UR Entertainment
Tony G DJ

Um, Starz was one of your original KIAA (and we know about THAT BS) companies that jumped ship after realizing what it was. Why would SC be bothering them NOW? Just to aggravate?

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

All life is an illusion Joe, SC wants to maintain the illusion that they are actually doing something meaningful as far as recovery and piracy. The fact is there are more pirates today than when SC started. This legal process as done less than nothing in the real world about solving the piracy problem. All it is used for is to create the illusion that SC is serious and you better license GEM or else. The Wizard Of Oz "Don't pay any attention to the man behind the curtain" SC is still the all powerful Oz, and all should bow before them. Yeah, right!

TOTO has definitely pulled back the curtain on the ALL POWERFUL OZ and it sure seems like the WIZARD has no clothes.....or teeth.

Joe, I was asked about Starz in a comment that implied they were not operating legally but were allowed to slide by SC. My comment in response was to specify that they weren't allowed to slide; they voluntarily complied without the necessity of a suit and demonstrated that they were 1:1. SC isn't "bothering them NOW." You might want to read the whole thread before commenting.

Careful Bruce SC still might try to gum you to death.