Karaoke Forums

I'm a little confused Chris not too long ago I remember you posted that there wasn't much of a future in Karaoke and you were considering easing out of the industry altogether. Now just a few months later you have quit your day job and have embraced totally the concept of having the entertainment business as your sole source of income. That is quite an about face. Nothing has really changed in the economy to warrant such an about face. Things are still chugging along at the same slow pace, the war on piracy is still pretty much where it once was.

Personally speaking I have never relied on the entertainment industry as my sole source of income. With a wife and children that to me wouldn't be practical. When I started DJ/KJing a friend of mine that was in a band for many years advised me never to quit my day job. Which of course is the main job. Don't get me wrong if this is your decision go for it. I'm just wondering what really changed in order for you to make such a complete turnaround?

There are plenty of people who make their living in the entertainment business. My business provides full time income for myself, my wife and my 27 year old son and part-time income for 20 more people. I'm still expanding the business to a second state and it's going very well. So if you're not afraid to quit your job and put your faith in yourself and your ideas, you'll always be a part-time performer.

Wonder away.....

-Chris

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-Chris

In a way Chris both you and Rick have answered my question it seems to be all about scale of operation. A lone rig operator would have a hard time clearing more than 50,000 to 60,000 a year. That is why expansion and having others work for you is the answer, to making real money.

This also explains to me why aside from the morale issues Chris why you dislike pirates so. In order for your business model to work the way you want it to, there has to be continual expansion of your business. In order for that to occur you have to push out the independent operators the bulk of which are pirates. The problem is along with pirates there are honest mom and pop operators also in that independent group.

The future of the industry will be centered around a few multi-riggs operators both legal and illegal capturing and holding on to the lion's share of the venues. The independent owner operator will disappear much like most of the independent service stations disappeared in the U.S. to be replaced by franchise holders running stations.

What you are describing has been going on for a long time already. Even "he who shall not be named" was a large (much larger than me even) multi-rig operator.

There are many, many single rig operators that use karaoke as a single source of income and have for a long time. I don't see them exiting the industry.

As for your positioning of me as the Wal-Mart of karaoke, I have consistently stated that I don't take gigs from existing operators. I have left my card with places that have existing karaoke but I make it clear I am not interested in taking gigs from hosts.

A brief history of my existing gigs -

Downtown Seattle gig (2 years running) - Their karaoke host was sued at another venue and did not disclose that to Jabu's when he came to them. They let him go and found me through the Sound Choice Site.

Kent, WA #1 (1 year running) - They did not have karaoke running before I started.

Renton, WA #1 (8 months) - I did a one off gig for them when their existing host had a scheduling conflict. That host quit 6 months later. One of their regulars recommended me. I got the deal.

Kent, WA #2 (3 months) - Previous host worked there 8 years. Burnt out, decided to try a new venue. They brought in another host that didn't work for the venue. A regular recommended me.

Renton, WA #2 (3 months) - Previous host worked there for 10 years I believe. he retired from karaoke and is now making music and music videos. They also tried another host that didn't work. They called one of my friendly competitors (also a very large hosting company) and they were not ready to expand so they referred to me. I got the gig.

Auburn, WA (2 weeks) - This venue has done karaoke 7 nights a week for 20 years. The most recent host was there for 10 years. The venue was featured on a TV reality show for a makeover and the makeover people suggested they dump karaoke and in the process of the makeover screwed the host over by CUTTING (not pulling) all of the 100 foot XLR speaker cables. Host was losing money during the remodel and went to another venue. When the Auburn location reopened, they decided they wanted karaoke back and posted a Craigslist ad. I answered. Of the 1/2 dozen respondent, they chose myself and another operator for test runs. I won because of sound quality, song selection, and I was able to do all 7 nights of the week vs the other host only being able to do 3.

Issaquah, Wa - (2 weeks) - This is the venue where I got my start over 3 years ago. I hosted here as a single rig operator, 1 night a week for 1.5 years. They never had karaoke before I started there. I left to start up my existing downtown gig. They called me back a couple weeks ago (new owner/manager but the manager has known me for almost 4 years).

I have never pushed anyone out and have no intentions of pushing anyone out so long as they are a legal, legitimate karaoke host/company. Though as I expand, I will have no problems targeting venues where I have a very high confidence level that they are pirates. If they lose their gigs because of that, they get no sympathy from me.

Rick no longer does karaoke. He is doing trivia at scale so your reference to him is irrelevant in this context.

This was a long winded way of saying - Nice attempt at stirring the pot. You will probably succeed in stirring it anyway because you are very skilled at doing so. But I have at least set the record straight.

-Chris

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-Chris

Still Chris the lone operator will have a tough time competing against large scale karaoke contracting operations. Just how are you going to divide the legal single rig operators from the pirates accurately? If you have figured out a fool proof way of doing that you should pass it on to SC and PR. It would save them a great deal of time and money. Just because you don't go after existing shows as a matter of policy doesn't mean other large scale karaoke contracting operations won't. I'm sorry if asking questions is stirring the pot.

P.S. I'm not setting you up as Wal-Mart karaoke Chris, is that the way you see yourself? You have no qualms about taking gigs away from suspected pirates, that leaves 95% of the current gigs open for expansion doesn't it Chris? Not only will the independent operator have to prove to SC and PR they are not pirates, they will also have to prove it to you, so you won't encroach on their business.

This has been discussed many times over. Go read.



When I have a fool proof method, I will let them know. But until I start going after pirates, I don't owe anyone any explanations.



...and exactly how am I supposed to control the actions of the other karaoke companies?



Shouldn't any thief be concerned about getting caught? Aren't we as citizens supposed to do our part to identify and control criminal activity?

If my legal activites cause illegal hosts to think twice and go straight and get legal then that is good for the industry.

If my legal activites cause illegal hosts to get out of karaoke then that is good for the industry.

If illegalm hosts lose gigs, because they have been forced out by legal hosts, how in the world is that a bad thing for anyone other than the illegal host?

Again, I am not the one doing anything wrong here. I am following the rules, I am investing in my business, and I am going to protect my business againt those that don't want to play by the rules.

The real questions are - How can you defend the thieves? How can you question my activities when I am employing people who do not have to worry about getting sued, when I am promoting an industry when there are people stealing from people like me, stealing from the karaoke companies, and putting the people the employ and the venues they work at in jeopardy of legal action? Who are you to even attempt to make me feel bad about what I do when there are people flat out stealing the karaoke music?

You have continuously questioned me and others about why we stand behind the karaoke companies and why we believe we are right. How about you answer my questions for a change?

-Chris

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-Chris

Which thieves are you talking about Chris, the pirates or the manus that go after the pirates for doing the same thing? The pirates are little thieves according to EMI SC is a big thief that owes them some big money. Should the charges brought by EMI proved true, wouldn't that mean you are defending a thief SC? If you can question the activities of others hosts, I think it is fair for other hosts to question your activities. Am I making you feel bad Chris or is your conscious getting the better of you? I have no power to make you feel anything Chris only you have that power. It would seem to me that there is a great deal of stealing going on by at least 95% of the industry including the manus themselves.

Dear Moderators -

I intended this thread to be a heartfelt thanks to a great many people that have helped me succeed over the past couple of years. As with all thread, they have a tendency to go off topic, but I feel the spirit of this one was intentionally derailed.

Request - Can you please spin off to a separate topic all posts starting with Lone Ranger's post on the following date/time?

Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:33 am

Excerpt - I'm a little confused Chris not too long ago I remember you posted that there wasn't much of a future in Karaoke and you were considering easing out of the industry altogether.

-Chris

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-Chris

I thought you were complaining Chris that I didn't answer your questions? I tried my best to do so. I'm sorry you don't like my answers, but then it was a pop quiz.

Question away. I have nothing to hide and I think I have made that readily apparent for as long as I have been on the forums. We don't even know your name. If you want to be taken seriously, open up and be a little more transparent.

So long as you insist on comparing KJ's and manufacturers, there will be no way to boil these discussions down to have meaningful discussions.

I too am guilty of compating the two, but manufacturers and KJ have distinct customers, audiences, scales, and more. It isn't fair at all to try to compare a pirate Kj with a karaoke company that may have pirated themselves. Again, because there is a difference between piracy at the KJ which is outright theft and piracy at the manufacturer level which is a dance around permissions and licensing.

If you want to choose a very narrow topic that we can actually stay somewhat on topic with, I will be happy to present my views. But I am not going to spend my valuable time trying to see through your muddy water to find a point.

-Chris

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-Chris

Um, Chris, I wasn't going to jump into this mutual beating thread between you and Lone, but I could not leave your statement above unanswered.

What should have been added to your last sentence was "to avoid full payment of required fees?". Forgive me, but find little difference between KJs who don't pay for their music and producers who don't pay for proper licensing and permissions at the time that they are required. Even if they pay later, they have held on to money and interest that should have been in the publishers' hands. Pirates who pay off SC are, in my opinion, still music theives- especially if only SC got paid, which is yet to be determined..

Both increase their profits by using music that they had no right to use. In short, the statement above allows a double standard.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

I was thinking the SAME exact thing Joe.

If licensing was given to produce 5000 /pressings/copies/ available downloads/ etc.. and they made 10,000 i wouldn't be surprised. That'd constitute THEFT.

Both SC and CB have been known in the past to go beyond and around licensing as well as use unethical shell-games BS to skirt this industry. Just like pirates they continue to play stupid until they're caught. Then they change names...or countries.

Johnny wrote: "Both SC and CB have been known in the past to go beyond and around licensing as well as use unethical shell-games BS to skirt this industry. Just like pirates they continue to play stupid until they're caught. Then they change names...or countries." and maybe their underwear. As in an OH SH!# they caught me moment.

Is this clear enough for you Chris, a thief is a thief just because one is an individual and one happens to be a large company makes no difference. The law should be enforced equally no questions asked. In England if you killed the King's Deer whether serf or lord the penalty was the same death. One thing that has always bothered me about this country is the idea that their should be one standard of justice for the poor and another for the rich. That is the system we have inherited unfortunately.

This little dance that SC is doing is stealing from the publishers plain and simple. They shouldn't be treated any differently than the humblest pirate, because really they are doing the same thing. I can excuse the pirate easier like the serf killing the deer, he is doing it maybe to feed his family. In the case of the lord he has plenty and is not starving his crime is pure greed. Not to mention the lord is better educated and knows the law and still breaks it. In this country there is a double standard of justice, it shouldn't happen but it does. I have always had more sympathy for the downtrodden than the well off. The true measure of a great nation is how they treat their more unfortunate citizens, not the well to do.

P.S. I hope this was narrow enough for you.

It isn't.

You still want to justify what KJ's do based upon what the manufacturers do.

When you can justify what pirate/thief KJ's do without invoking the manufacturers maybe I will listen. Until then, you have nothing relevant or informative to say in my opinion.

-Chris

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-Chris

Did I miss something? At no point during this mutual Chris/Lone beating did I see anything from Lone that could be interpreted as justifying pirate KJs, nor have I seen it in any of his other posts. Why did you post the above?

What he ISN'T doing is justifying the mfrs. actions.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

That's not how the licensing works. The number of authorized copies is open-ended, with reporting of the number of copies made each quarter and a royalty paid on those.



I can't speak to CB, but you're way outside the facts with the statement above.

SC is still based in the same county it has always been located in, operating under the same name it's used for more than 25 years.

As for "unethical," consider the following: The music publishers offered individual licenses (per publisher) based in the US with worldwide coverage for a given price. They also offered group licenses (all publishers) based in the UK with worldwide coverage for a difference price, much lower than the US price. The UK licenses did not differ in any material aspect from the US licenses in terms of what was allowed, and they offered licensing that covered distribution in the US, just at a lower price and with a much lower level of red tape.

In what universe is it even possibly unethical for SC to elect to license through the UK system?

Excuse me Chris I thought the charge against the pirates was they were stealing from SC. EMI says that SC have been basically stealing from them. Is it a crime if a thief steals from another thief since there is no honor among thieves? If a crook steals a diamond can he charge another crook for taking it, if it is stolen property in the first place? You want to set up two different systems of justice one for the pirate thief and one for the corporate thief. In this case the stealing happens to be white collar in nature.

If you can't see the problem with your position then really I don't know what to say. There is no difference, you want to hold the corporate thieves to a different standard since they wear a suit and the host wears an Hawaiian shirt. One thing that has been forgotten is if you are a thief you cannot yourself call the police if you are robbed.

I think it's quite early, irresponsible and probably slanderous to be calling SC a thief over this at this point. Harrington says they were on the up and up. EMI says they were not. Maybe we should let a court decide what's what before assigning the T word.