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Just Curious...
https://mail.karaokescene.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=28523		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  doowhatchulike [ Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Just Curious...
INSANE KJ Wrote:
"I see that it was someone he knew that had his password and hacked into it.

I find it very curious to see that people in Kossack's personal circle close to him want to harm him. I wonder why?"

HARRINGTON LAW Wrote:
"I see that in his typically classless fashion, he has seen fit to impugn me by name by saying that it is merely "doubtful" that I orchestrated the attack on his server.

Not that it needs to be said, but I didn't.

If anything, I want his blog to stay up because the advice he provides to pro se litigants is so spectacularly bad."


Is it ever a very good position to take to want bad advice for ANYONE???
Author:  doowhatchulike [ Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious...
Also, I haven't been able to wrap myself around how an entity can call the transfer of songs from disc to computer ILLEGAL, and then grant them some sort of immunity after intervention, whether it be proactive or after litigation. If media shifting is illegal, can an entity give permission for someone to break the law? If they cannot, then that procedure is improper; if they CAN give permission, then calling it ILLEGAL is a misrepresentation--it is more like a policy breach...
Author:  Paradigm Karaoke [ Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious...
the certifications do not make you legal, even the suing entities say they can not give permission. what it does is if you pay they will look the other way and not tell the big boys that you are copying it. basically the exact thing that you and others have been berated for not reporting any infringers to SC, they will not report you to the publishers.
Author:  The Lone Ranger [ Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious...
Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
the certifications do not make you legal, even the suing entities say they can not give permission. what it does is if you pay they will look the other way and not tell the big boys that you are copying it. basically the exact thing that you and others have been berated for not reporting any infringers to SC, they will not report you to the publishers.


8) Of course if you pay them off they won't squeal on you. The question is if they know a crime was committed and they don't report it aren't they aiding in the commission of that crime? Also if you are using orphan brands in your show and you don't pay them off, can't they inform the publishers to do something about these orphans?
Author:  doowhatchulike [ Sun Aug 25, 2013 6:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious...
If a product is illegal, I am not certain if there is an action that can make it legal. Any product considered to be "orphaned", if it was not "legal" to begin with, is inherently "illegal". Of course, the terms "legal" and "illegal" cannot be just arbitrarily thrown around...
Author:  jdmeister [ Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious...
doowhatchulike wrote:
Of course, the terms "legal" and "illegal" cannot be just arbitrarily thrown around...


Sure they can.. Ask any lawyer.. :mrgreen:
Author:  Lone Wolf [ Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious...
SC doesn't SELL you anything other than permission to transfer their LOGO, and for that matter either does any other manu.

When the "SLEEPING GIANTS" finally awaken and put their foot down all transfers will be illegal in some form or fashion.

If the Sleeping Giants give you permission you will still need to PAY FOR IT from SC and the others to shift their LOGO.

If the Sleeping Giants NEVER GIVE permission all with transferred materials will be illegal, no matter whose label it might be under.
Author:  Smoothedge69 [ Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious...
Lone Wolf wrote:
SC doesn't SELL you anything other than permission to transfer their LOGO, and for that matter either does any other manu.

When the "SLEEPING GIANTS" finally awaken and put their foot down all transfers will be illegal in some form or fashion.

If the Sleeping Giants give you permission you will still need to PAY FOR IT from SC and the others to shift their LOGO.

If the Sleeping Giants NEVER GIVE permission all with transferred materials will be illegal, no matter whose label it might be under.

IF the sleeping giants awaken. They MAY just tell SC and anyone else trying to wake them to go scratch.
Author:  doowhatchulike [ Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious...
Lone Wolf wrote:
SC doesn't SELL you anything other than permission to transfer their LOGO, and for that matter either does any other manu.

When the "SLEEPING GIANTS" finally awaken and put their foot down all transfers will be illegal in some form or fashion.

If the Sleeping Giants give you permission you will still need to PAY FOR IT from SC and the others to shift their LOGO.

If the Sleeping Giants NEVER GIVE permission all with transferred materials will be illegal, no matter whose label it might be under.


A decision by a company can no more make something illegal than it can make something legal...
Author:  Lone Wolf [ Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious...
doowhatchulike wrote:
Lone Wolf wrote:
SC doesn't SELL you anything other than permission to transfer their LOGO, and for that matter either does any other manu.

When the "SLEEPING GIANTS" finally awaken and put their foot down all transfers will be illegal in some form or fashion.

If the Sleeping Giants give you permission you will still need to PAY FOR IT from SC and the others to shift their LOGO.

If the Sleeping Giants NEVER GIVE permission all with transferred materials will be illegal, no matter whose label it might be under.


A decision by a company can no more make something illegal than it can make something legal...


HUH?
Author:  Paradigm Karaoke [ Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious...
Lone Wolf wrote:
SC doesn't SELL you anything other than permission to transfer their LOGO, and for that matter either does any other manu.

right.

Lone Wolf wrote:
When the "SLEEPING GIANTS" finally awaken and put their foot down all transfers will be illegal in some form or fashion.

i don't think so. not one of them has ever given any dj who transferred the "Sleeping Giants" music any problem. only two manus that could not keep up with the competition.

Lone Wolf wrote:
If the Sleeping Giants give you permission you will still need to PAY FOR IT from SC and the others to shift their LOGO.

unfortunately, right.

Lone Wolf wrote:
If the Sleeping Giants NEVER GIVE permission all with transferred materials will be illegal, no matter whose label it might be under.

they have never cared before and i do not believe they will. the DJ industry would come to a screeching halt if they did.
Author:  Lone Wolf [ Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious...
Yes but we are not talking about the DJ industry we are talking about Karaoke.

When the Sleeping Giants finally awaken and the artist, writers, etc. finally get the fact that someone other than them is making money off their stuff they will put a stop to it as some have already done (explained in another thread here somewhere).
Author:  chrisavis [ Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious...
I personally believe the "Sleeping Giants" term is overinflated. Some individuals on the forums as well as some of the US karaoke manufacturers have been tossing it around for a while now and I believe they do so as a scare tactic. The karaoke companies SAY they are having issues licensing and that there is a "no-fly" list yet other karaoke companies are delivering music by those very artists.....many of those being US based companies.

I don't bring this up to discount that there may be more scrutiny from the copyright holders, but I do not believe for a moment that after 30 years of karaoke that there will ever be a shake up to the degree that some would like us to believe.

The shake-up will come in HOW the music gets distributed. Physical media is rapidly losing favor with the consumer and professional DJ's and KJ's will not drive enough demand to bear the cost of continuing to produce content on physical media.

At my day-job team meeting last week, there were some very lively discussions around content delivery. None of them revolved around physical media. Every single discussion involved online delivery through online stores, streaming services, and of course....the cloud. And do not jump to the conclusion that I am talking only about software. We (Microsoft) work very closely with the "TV", movie, music industries. (TV in quotes because "television" has already been surpassed by mobile devices and PC's as the primary method by which consumers receive traditional televised content)

Spotify, last.fm, Pandora, Live365, Slacker Radio, turntable, The Music Genome Project, Jango, Grooveshark, AOL Radio, songza, iTunes, Xbox Music, Netflix, Hulu, Vudu, Amazon, Xfinity, Vimeo, YouTube, Karaoke Channel, The Karaoke Cloud, KaraokeVersion, Tricerasoft, Xbox Karaoke.

It is your choice whether to ignore that technology is changing how we search for an consume movies, TV, Music and yes.......karaoke. The 20-30 yr veteran KJ's don't have much to worry about. How they do their shows will not change before they retire from the industry. The <5 yr KJ's should keep their eyes open and be prepared to change directions with hardware and content delivery. Physical media will only be available in the aftermarket. New content will be delivered online.

Perhaps the most telling conversation that came up in my team meeting last week was when I proposed to the general manager of my organization (my bosses, boss) the following -

Chris - "Some in the industry underestimate how quickly the move to cloud computing will take place. It only took 10 years for the industry to go from questioning virtualization technologies to virtualization being the backbone of every Fortune 1000 company. The move to cloud computing in the form of PAAS (platform as a service) and IAAS (infrastructure as a service) will see the same type of change in the next 5-10 years."

Matt - "Your thinking is too linear. Technology advances are exponential. Think more in terms of 3-5 years."

Chris - "I agree, but I am trying to be conservative."

Matt - "If you are conservative about this, you are doing a disservice to your customers."

I believe he is right about most industries. I am skeptical that 3 years from now the karaoke industry will be transformed. But I do believe 5-8 years from now we will be looking at things through a different lens.

-Chris
Author:  leopard lizard [ Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious...
I don't feel this huge urge to worry about second guessing what technology happens when. Even as a disc show the technology exists to convert my library to computer delivery. If it goes to all computer delivery then I know how to use a computer. My only concern would be being forced into a cloud or subscription mode. When you think about how volatile this industry is and how a company might disappear overnight, it doesn't seem prudent to have all of one's eggs in someone else's basket.

It may be that someone comes up with a licensing model that makes it affordable to have subscriptions with two companies in case one goes down. Maybe all songbooks will eventually be by smart phone from the subscription data base to cover the fluctuations of songs being added or deleted. Then the singers would just have to adapt to having more selection at the price of maybe their song disappears the next week. Anything could happen and it could be for the better or worse. Not every invention is automatically better.

But I do think most karaoke hosts want some control over their tools. The Cloud is designed to keep that control with the publishers as far as adding or subtracting at will. What if you subscribe to one company's Cloud service and that company gets in a dispute with a publisher or is sued or has to close down suddenly? Where does that leave your show? I think that is the resistance to the Cloud and not from a fear of new technology.
Author:  Smoothedge69 [ Sun Sep 08, 2013 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious...
leopard lizard wrote:
I don't feel this huge urge to worry about second guessing what technology happens when. Even as a disc show the technology exists to convert my library to computer delivery. If it goes to all computer delivery then I know how to use a computer. My only concern would be being forced into a cloud or subscription mode. When you think about how volatile this industry is and how a company might disappear overnight, it doesn't seem prudent to have all of one's eggs in someone else's basket.

It may be that someone comes up with a licensing model that makes it affordable to have subscriptions with two companies in case one goes down. Maybe all songbooks will eventually be by smart phone from the subscription data base to cover the fluctuations of songs being added or deleted. Then the singers would just have to adapt to having more selection at the price of maybe their song disappears the next week. Anything could happen and it could be for the better or worse. Not every invention is automatically better.

But I do think most karaoke hosts want some control over their tools. The Cloud is designed to keep that control with the publishers as far as adding or subtracting at will. What if you subscribe to one company's Cloud service and that company gets in a dispute with a publisher or is sued or has to close down suddenly? Where does that leave your show? I think that is the resistance to the Cloud and not from a fear of new technology.

As you said, the cloud can pull and add as they need to. That can hurt us. A customer comes up and asks to do Led Zeppelin - Whole Lotta Love. Well you tell him that sorry it's not available. He say that he did it last week. You say that you are sorry, but the company pulled it. The customer goes somewhere else and sings his Zeppelin.
Author:  Lone Wolf [ Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious...
With the Karaoke market being so volatile I would never subscribe to something like cloud.

Just take a look at CB for example....here one day gone the next....what would you do if your business relied solely on the cloud and when you went to renew your monthly subscription it was gone? Call all your customers and say sorry I can't do Karaoke anymore my music is gone?

Just a note for Chris, if Microsoft is has come to the conclusion that the CD is dead just how do they intend to deliver their software for those individuals that want to buy it?

If your hard drive crashes and you don't have an original Windows disc how will you get the software to replace it if they do away with CD's
Author:  Smoothedge69 [ Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious...
Lone Wolf wrote:
With the Karaoke market being so volatile I would never subscribe to something like cloud.

Just take a look at CB for example....here one day gone the next....what would you do if your business relied solely on the cloud and when you went to renew your monthly subscription it was gone? Call all your customers and say sorry I can't do Karaoke anymore my music is gone?

Just a note for Chris, if Microsoft is has come to the conclusion that the CD is dead just how do they intend to deliver their software for those individuals that want to buy it?

If your hard drive crashes and you don't have an original Windows disc how will you get the software to replace it if they do away with CD's


Easily, use a different computer with a flash drive to download the ISO image. Of course that may not work with Windows 8 because they don't leave the verification code anywhere on the computer like the other operating systems. Windows 8's code is embedded in the bios. I don't know how that would work.
Author:  chrisavis [ Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious...
Lone Wolf wrote:
With the Karaoke market being so volatile I would never subscribe to something like cloud.

Just take a look at CB for example....here one day gone the next....


They were around for something like ~7300 days (20 yrs)

Lone Wolf wrote:
Just a note for Chris, if Microsoft is has come to the conclusion that the CD is dead just how do they intend to deliver their software for those individuals that want to buy it?


How do you think Apple delivers it considering they don't ship machines with optical drives? Our Surface machines don't have optical drives either. Other hardware manufacturers are beginning to offer CD/DVD readers only as optional equipment, not standard. We produce CD/DVD for the time being because not everyone has access to high-speed internet. The time is fast approaching when ALL of our software will be delivered via the Internet.

The Windows 8.1 update is being delivered to qualified 8.0 users exclusively through the Microsoft Store.

Lone Wolf wrote:
If your hard drive crashes and you don't have an original Windows disc how will you get the software to replace it if they do away with CD's


Heard of USB? Download the ISO, put it on a USB memory stick, install. It is actually faster than doing a CD/DVD install anyway.

-Chris
Author:  Smoothedge69 [ Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious...
chrisavis wrote:
The Windows 8.1 update is being delivered to qualified 8.0 users exclusively through the Microsoft Store.



What's a qualified 8.0 user?
Author:  Lone Wolf [ Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious...
chrisavis wrote:
Lone Wolf wrote:
With the Karaoke market being so volatile I would never subscribe to something like cloud.

Just take a look at CB for example....here one day gone the next....


They were around for something like ~7300 days (20 yrs)

Yes but they were in business one day and gone the next

Lone Wolf wrote:
Just a note for Chris, if Microsoft is has come to the conclusion that the CD is dead just how do they intend to deliver their software for those individuals that want to buy it?


How do you think Apple delivers it considering they don't ship machines with optical drives? Our Surface machines don't have optical drives either. Other hardware manufacturers are beginning to offer CD/DVD readers only as optional equipment, not standard. We produce CD/DVD for the time being because not everyone has access to high-speed internet. The time is fast approaching when ALL of our software will be delivered via the Internet.

The Windows 8.1 update is being delivered to qualified 8.0 users exclusively through the Microsoft Store.

Lone Wolf wrote:
If your hard drive crashes and you don't have an original Windows disc how will you get the software to replace it if they do away with CD's


Heard of USB? Download the ISO, put it on a USB memory stick, install. It is actually faster than doing a CD/DVD install anyway.

Works great if you have 2 computers or access to another one....I'm sure some don't. Why wouldn't they offer to send it to you on a stick?


-Chris
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