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Where Is PR?
https://mail.karaokescene.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=27892		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  The Lone Ranger [ Sat May 18, 2013 5:15 am ]
Post subject:  Where Is PR?
8) It has now been about a year since CB has collapsed and the company was divided between PR and DTE. I know DTE took over the production end of the business and they will be earning revenues from the sale of their products, and the Cloud Service. PR took over the protection of the old CB trademark. Besides continuing litigation already started by CB prior to it's collapse, exactly what has PR done? It would seem that according to some hosts they have continued investigations, all this time and no new lawsuits. How are they surviving if they are not actively using the court system to recover monies, for the illegal use of the CB product? Unlike SC who claims it is still a producer, they are not still in the production end of the business. The legal process does cost money, where is their source of cash flow? They have not even taken the most basic step of renewing the audit process for the CB product, a necessary first step, if they are going to get serious about enforcement of their right to the CB trademark. Shouldn't there be a little more movement on their part? Have a blessed day.
Author:  JoeChartreuse [ Sat May 18, 2013 10:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Where Is PR?
Though I believe PR was formed specifically to do with the CB trademark what SC has been attempting to do with theirs, I think that they have been observing the result of SC's actions to date, and are possibly sitting back.

I believe they are waiting to see how SC pans out before committing themselves to a similar plan of action.

Of course, they may also be attempting to come up with a better plan before jumping into SC's problems.

Another scenario would be that they have observed enough of SC's results and backlash, couldn't come up with a better plan, and decided to just sit on the trademark for now.

We won't know 'til we know....
Author:  The Lone Ranger [ Sun May 19, 2013 4:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Where Is PR?
JoeChartreuse wrote:
Though I believe PR was formed specifically to do with the CB trademark what SC has been attempting to do with theirs, I think that they have been observing the result of SC's actions to date, and are possibly sitting back.

I believe they are waiting to see how SC pans out before committing themselves to a similar plan of action.

Of course, they may also be attempting to come up with a better plan before doing jumping in.

Another scenario would be that they have observed enough of SC's results and backlash, couldn't come up with a better plan, and decided to just sit on the trademark for now.

We won't know 'til we know....


8) Waiting Joe? It would seem they only have a certain window of opportunity in order to enforce their rights, before they run the risk of having the CB material drift into the abandonware zone that Chris was talking about. I just hope they sit on their hands for a couple more years then at least for me this will no longer be an issue. Have a blessed day.
Author:  JoeChartreuse [ Sun May 19, 2013 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Where Is PR?
I'm only guessing, but I actually believe that window is open as long as they own the trademark. However, I see your point.

Since they don't produce tracks, exert any quality control, are unable to claim any loss of income because they are not a producer, and haven't really done any enforcement on their own ( though they worked jointly with SC once) Trademark Abandonment seems to be a very real possibility after a given amount of time, I guess....
Author:  KaraokeJerry [ Mon May 20, 2013 3:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Where Is PR?
This is from Cornell University Law School site:

"Abandonment of a trademark occurs when the owner of the trademark deliberately ceases to use the trademark for three or more years, with no intention of using the trademark again in the future."
Author:  JoeChartreuse [ Tue May 21, 2013 10:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Where Is PR?
So I guess they have a 3 year window- which would mean they have about 2 years left....
Author:  Cueball [ Tue May 21, 2013 10:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Where Is PR?
JoeChartreuse wrote:
So I guess they have a 3 year window- which would mean they have about 2 years left....

And then what? What do you think you're going to be able to do with the CB brand/name/logo/whatever 2 years from now if nothing else happens?
Author:  The Lone Ranger [ Wed May 22, 2013 2:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Where Is PR?
8) Same thing I'm doing right now cue using the product. I have 2700 songs on my SCDG's that I converted back to single discs and use in my show. Not to mention the other original discs I own. Currently there is not an audit system set up even if I wanted to get certified. Minus an active audit system in place, I think PR will have a tougher time protecting the CB trademark, not to mention CB allowed downloads and SCDG's to be made of their product. Two things SC never allowed, that is also the reason I think SC has not joined cloud it would hurt their legal process. In a little over two years game over for me what happens after that is not my concern. Have a blessed day.
Author:  Insane KJ [ Wed May 22, 2013 8:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Where Is PR?
The Lone Ranger wrote:
I have 2700 songs on my SCDG's that I converted back to single discs and use in my show.


You took 6 Chartbuster SCDG's and shifted it to approximately 180 individual CDG-R discs?

Why go from carrying 6 discs to 180?
Author:  The Lone Ranger [ Wed May 22, 2013 8:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Where Is PR?
Insane KJ wrote:
The Lone Ranger wrote:
I have 2700 songs on my SCDG's that I converted back to single discs and use in my show.


You took 6 Chartbuster SCDG's and shifted it to approximately 180 individual CDG-R discs?

Why go from carrying 6 discs to 180?


8) I'm not computer based I'm disc based Insane. I don't like the CAVS player I would have to play them on so I returned them to their original form. I hope that doesn't bother you too much. Also I don't have to damage the originals by playing them, and if and when I am ever audited all I have to show PR is my six original discs much easier than them having to check, all the small discs.
Author:  Insane KJ [ Wed May 22, 2013 9:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Where Is PR?
The Lone Ranger wrote:
Insane KJ wrote:
The Lone Ranger wrote:
I have 2700 songs on my SCDG's that I converted back to single discs and use in my show.


You took 6 Chartbuster SCDG's and shifted it to approximately 180 individual CDG-R discs?

Why go from carrying 6 discs to 180?


8) I'm not computer based I'm disc based Insane. I don't like the CAVS player I would have to play them on so I returned them to their original form. I hope that doesn't bother you too much. Also I don't have to damage the originals by playing them, and if and when I am ever audited all I have to show PR is my six original discs much easier than them having to check, all the small discs.


Thank you for admitting that you copied/media-shifted the Chartbuster SCDG's publicly.
Author:  The Lone Ranger [ Wed May 22, 2013 11:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Where Is PR?
Insane KJ wrote:
The Lone Ranger wrote:
Insane KJ wrote:
The Lone Ranger wrote:
I have 2700 songs on my SCDG's that I converted back to single discs and use in my show.


You took 6 Chartbuster SCDG's and shifted it to approximately 180 individual CDG-R discs?

Why go from carrying 6 discs to 180?


8) I'm not computer based I'm disc based Insane. I don't like the CAVS player I would have to play them on so I returned them to their original form. I hope that doesn't bother you too much. Also I don't have to damage the originals by playing them, and if and when I am ever audited all I have to show PR is my six original discs much easier than them having to check, all the small discs.


Thank you for admitting that you copied/media-shifted the Chartbuster SCDG's publicly.



8) Technically the original CB discs were shifted to CAVS's SCDG's all I did is return them to their original format. It would be CAVS that might have a problems with that, but I can show them I have my original discs and my paper work on them. As long as I'm 1:1 compliant there should be no problem. As far as I know neither CAVS or CB currently has any type of an auditing system in place. Have an Insane day.

P.S. I made no secret that I back up all my originals Insane, I don't use the original in the show, I keep them at home secured. James said all are guilty of non permitted shifting even if it is the same media CDG shifted to CDG, so what's your point? You do have to have the original if you are ever audited. So far I have never been audited, of course SC is the only company currently conducting audits that I know of.
Author:  Insane KJ [ Thu May 23, 2013 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Looks like Piracy Recovery is recovering $$$$
Looks like Piracy Recovery is recovering $$$$

Just found this default judgement from last year that I was unaware of.

"5/22/2012 - 83 DEFAULT JUDGMENT in favor of Piracy Recovery, LLC, Worldwide Digital Entertainment, LLC against Bobby R Green. (c/m to Bobby Green, XXXX XxXxXxX Avenue, Knoxville, TN 37XXX) (ABF) (Entered: 05/22/2012)"

Apparently, on Doc# 81 CB Business names were allowed to switch to Piracy Recovery.

5/3/2012 - 81 ORDER granting plaintiffs' Motion 80 to Allow Withdrawal and Substitution of Plaintiffs Tennessee Productions Center, Inc. and Big Mama Digital Entertainment. Plaintiffs Tennessee Productions Center, Inc. and Big Mama Digital Entertainment, Inc. shall be removed as plaintiffs of record and Piracy Recovery, LLC will be added as a Plaintiff in their place and stead. Signed by District Judge Thomas A Varlan on 5/3/12. (ADA) Modified on 5/3/2012 to note c/m to Shooters Bar and Grill c/o Ben Jackson XXXX X Xxxxx Way Louisville, TN 37XXX(ADA). (Entered: 05/03/2012)

http://www.rfcexpress.com/lawsuits/copy ... documents/

It's old news but actions in the case are still proceeding as of April 2013 according to the docket.
Author:  kjflorida [ Thu May 23, 2013 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Where Is PR?
PR is hiding in plain sight....I suspect we will be hearing a lot more from them within the 2 year window.
Author:  JoeChartreuse [ Thu May 23, 2013 11:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Where Is PR?
cueball wrote:
JoeChartreuse wrote:
So I guess they have a 3 year window- which would mean they have about 2 years left....

And then what? What do you think you're going to be able to do with the CB brand/name/logo/whatever 2 years from now if nothing else happens?


I have absolutely no idea, Cue. Lone brought up the possibility of Trademark Abandonment. I agreed that it is a strong possibility. I haven't spent a microsecond thinking about any effect on me.... I don't really care, and as another OMD host, it shouldn't be of any consideration to you either.

However, I would assume that if they lose control of the trademark, their original reason for existence is voided as well.

Insane mentioned a suit, but I'm thinking that the only suit they were involved in was a joint effort with SC. Don't know if the one mentioned was that one, or was actually a solo suit?
Author:  Paradigm Karaoke [ Fri May 24, 2013 2:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Where Is PR?
it was CB's one suit against a bunch of venues for copyright infringement.
how they got copyright infringement when SC cant i don't know.
Author:  rickgood [ Fri May 24, 2013 3:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Where Is PR?
They've sued 2 parties in two years and that makes them relevant? Don't think so.
Author:  Bazza [ Sat May 25, 2013 10:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Where Is PR?
The Lone Ranger wrote:
Technically the original CB discs were shifted to CAVS's SCDG's all I did is return them to their original format.


"Technically", the route a piece of music took before you bought the product is meaningless. You buy it in the format it is in.

Do you know where CD-G music is before it's pressed in a plant or burned? ON A HARD DRIVE. Copied from another hard drive. Sometimes multiple drives. But this doesnt mean you can do the same. :lol:
Author:  timberlea [ Sat May 25, 2013 10:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Where Is PR?
Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
it was CB's one suit against a bunch of venues for copyright infringement.
how they got copyright infringement when SC cant i don't know.


James already said they could have gone that way but by pursuing it through the Trademark laws was easier and would net the same results if they won.
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