Karaoke Forums

JoeChartreuse wrote:
Are you going to answer the question I asked above (Originally asked of Timberlea-J.C.):

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You buy a download {any manufacturer's}- for which you NEVER had a disc.. You're not "1:1". Can you use it? Keep in mind that only SC uses the 1:1 bit to any great length in the karaoke industry. Can you use that download, or does 1:1 ONLY have relevance to SC?"
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As you have noted, SC is the only company talking about 1:1 or doing any enforcement around it. From the SC point of view, 1:1 refers to a relationship between a physical disc and a copy to another disc or to a ripped format. Downloads are (obviously) different and the 1:1 would presumably mean 1 download for every 1 rig it will be used on.

-Chris
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A near miss, Chris. This was about disc ownership-possession- for every track. When I stated that I had receipts for all, someone answered that this wasn't enough. How could I prove that I hadn't sold the disc on e-bay, or to another KJ if I lost an original disc?

The same would go for a download, for which there ISN'T any disc. How can one prove that, once downloaded, infinite copies were not made and distributed?

Therefore, if one is pro-SC methodology, one is then a believer in their "1:1" formula. That being said, no pro-SC methodology host (aka "Cheerleader") can be a download host without being a complete hippocrite.

Hence, my question: How many pro-SC methodology hosts here are also using downloads- of ANY brand- without buying a corresponding disc?

For example: Chris, do you use downloads in your show for which you have no corresponding disc OR are you "1:1"?

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No answer from Chris or Timberlea. I'm thinking that even "Cheerleaders" are having trouble with SC's "1:1" wishes and downloading.

Can't be both, but I'm certain some who claim to be "1:1" are also downloaders- Download hosts have discussed it here.

Anyone care to show some courage and step up?

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

We're neither.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

No more than one can prove that once a disc has been acquired that infinite burns were not produced then distributed. There is a code of honor that applies here. Some ignore it, others do not.



I can easily recognize Sound Choice's 1:1 policy as it pertains to physical discs while recognizing technology trends that suggest 1:1 is intended to mean One Download:One System. That doesn't make me a hypocrite, it means I keep up with technological advances and I adhere to the spirit of the policy all the while paying for ALL of my karaoke music, and supporting the industry.



Silly question. Nobody can or will ever be able to answer this question because there are no comprehensive records regarding hosts (regardless of SC stance) and how they obtain their music.

The "here" clause won't do you any good because no one "here" is obligated to answer and "here" is only a very small sampling of the total number of karaoke hosts in the US that pay for downloads. Too many people "here" form opinions about the entire state of the karaoke industry based on what happens "here" instead or what really takes place out there.



You know the answer to this - Yes. I purchase downloads. By their very nature, there is no disc. I am beginning to think that luddite is not a sufficient adjective for you.



Challenge Accepted (pulling on my big boy courage pants):

I am 1:1 and I am a paid downloader. As I have explained above, they can easily and peacefully co-exist.

I purchase downloads on a per rig basis. I use separate accounts per rig to help ensure I don't accidentally download the same track to more than one system. I have thus paid for "Call Me Maybe" downloads 3 times according to my records. I am therefore 1:1 on a Download:Rig basis. The same as you should be 1:1 from a Disc:Rig basis.

As noted above, I keep up with technological trends and I adhere to the spirit of the suggested policies. Sound Choice has their definition of 1:1 tied to physical discs because that is all they produce. KaraokeVersion.com can't have a 1:1 policy tied to discs because they don't produce discs. They produce downloads. Thus I apply 1:1 on a Download:Rig basis. That is the spirit of what is trying to be accomplished.

Your attempt to position people who download as somehow being incompatible with Sound Choice 1:1 policy is futile.

-Chris

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-Chris

For an easy answer to the question of 1-1 downloads, anyone can be receive anwsers from the 2 legal download sites here in the USA. Simply email Digitrax and All Star Karaoke and ask for the rules. They will be happy to educate anyone who asks.

Ya know.....since there aren't any absolute rules in any of this, it really only takes a little common sense and honesty to ensure you are doing the right thing.

This pretty much sums it up - Pay for everything you use.

-Chris

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-Chris

Then you need to do a bit more thinking. SC's "1:1" policy requires a disc for every track. You do not follow that policy. You- though an SC customer, are not in compliance and open to legal suit, whether audited or not.

Worse, those who paid in good faith for SC tracks from Clark, DOPi, and the original T-soft are screwed as well- by SC.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

The SC policy is for SC tracks only.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Agreed, and my point...

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

So how am I a hypocrite again? How am I open to a lawsuit?

-Chris

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-Chris

The policy actually says "original media," not "disc."

For SC, for now, that means the same thing. For other manus, it could mean something else. But I don't see what the issue is. SC's policy has the force of law as applied to SC's tracks, because the law gives us the right to grant or withhold authorization. With respect to others' tracks, our focus is on making certain that pirates don't use unpaid copies of other brands to compete unfairly. Our media-shifting policy is irrelevant to that.

Then how can you require KJ's to remove other manu's material if it is found on their systems and they do no have a physical disc for it?

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I like everyone when I first meet them. If you don't like me that's not my problem it's YOURS!
A stranger is a friend you haven't met yet

We don't. At least, that's not the whole story. The injunctions we propose (and that get entered) merely require that the defendant obtain written permission from the manu they obtained it from. In the case of a (legal) download, what is authorized by the manu would be governed by the terms of service associated with the download, and would ordinarily include permission.

When we do it by settlement, there are accommodations for other media types, including downloads.

A response worth considering to the second question is that, if this attempt to make the presence of other company's material on a PC controllable by a third party is continuously upheld, you can be approached with OR without their material and be sued by anyone...I cannot help but believe that attempts to enforce this scenario should be considered overreaching.

Once again, Timberlea, no one said your were. I asked your opinion of pro-SC methodology KJs who would use downloads to run their shows without having corresponding discs.

I'm not here to out anyone, but know some do, as they have discussed it here.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

First understand that I have no policies regarding how another KJ runs his/her business- I am speaking of SC.

SC's "1:1" policy is a disc for every track. WHile I'm sure you are compliant to their wishes in regard to their brand, your entire library is NOT "1:1" as described by SC.

I couldn't care less. The point is that by doing this, you are saying that you don't believe SC's WISHES have anything to do with being "legal" or "legit". If you did, your entire library would be "1:1".

I happen to agree with you, by the way.

You simply wish to comply with their wishes in regard to their brand, which is up to you.

That's one. Anyone else?

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Really? Wasn't it you who recently posted that your own wife states that if you want answers like that you do NOT ask the salesman/supplier??

I agree with her by the way- alway said she's a smart lady...

However, this thread is NOT about the merits or lack thereof regarding downloading in general.

This was the question:

(You buy a download (any manufacturer's)- for which you NEVER had a disc.. You're not "1:1". can you use it? Keep in mind that only SC uses the 1:1 bit to any great length in the karaoke industry. Can you use that download, or does 1:1 ONLY have relevance to SC?"

_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Agreed, but nothing to do with the OP.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

No argument with what you wrote, but had no relevance to the OP.

I hear a lot of language mangling here. "Legal" or "Legit" instead of "Compliant.". Pro-SC hosts are saying that if one doesn't follow SC's wishes, then they are neither.

Yet somehow they only apply this to SC product, meaning that apparently they don't follow their own rules for defining "Legit" and "Legal".

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

You ( and other pro-SC methodology folks)do not make that distinction when you post. You folks describe those who don't comply to SC's wishes as not "legal", not "legit", and sometimes "pirates"- even if they paid for their tracks- simply because they don't want to pay for an audit, or even merely because SC has sued them.

As for lawsuits-: If one of your download brands ever decided to go the way of SC, you would be non-compliant ( or if you prefer, not "legal"). This would also apply to those downloaded SC tracks that were availble from Dopi, the the original T-soft, and at least one other site- even if you paid for them. Sure, you could do what you and other Pro-SC folks knock others for and go scurrying to buy up product- but it doesn't change the fact that you are not running "1:1" NOW- yet you can call yourself "legal" because it's not SC.

Bottom line: SC does not make the laws, and despite your stance here you agree with me in regard to the running of your show.

SO- how about knocking off the use of "legal" and "legit" and stick with merely "SC Compliant"? A lot less confrontational, and certainly more truthful.

Chris, I never said that you are doing anything wrong. I just said that you're not "1:1" per SC's description, except for SC product. Ease up......

BTW- Nothing to do with SC, but a download host would have a harder time proving purchase in good faith than one who owns the disc, should the sleeping giants ( publishers/owners) ever awaken. Doesn't mean the disc owner would be immune, but owning the mfrs. discs would at least shift some of the liability.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

I disagree. 1:1 ONLY applies to those buying the original media (a disc) and shifting it to hard drive - regardless of manu - however SC is the only one enforcing that stance. 1 disc to 1 shifted product in a single system ie 1:1.
A download IS the original media, there is no 1:1 rule, you are not shifting the media from one format to another that it wasn't originally sold in, you are putting it on the hard drive in the format you bought it. If you put it on ANOTHER hard drive for a multi show purpose, then you would need to purchase a 2nd copy of that track. And if you want to get nitpicky how about 1:1 = 1 download per 1 system!

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