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I'm Not Sure I Understand...
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Author:  KaraokeHeroes [ Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:49 pm ]
Post subject:  I'm Not Sure I Understand...

So, if I buy a CDG, and I load it onto a hard drive player, and I keep the disc in a filing cabinet with a receipt to show I purchased it, am I still at risk if I get sued? Am I the kind of target SoundChoice and others would go after?

And what if I buy three CDGs and load them on three hard drive players, and keep all three discs?

What if I do that, but only hang onto one disc?

What if I buy one disc and load it on three hard drive players, all for use on the same premises?

Are these examples of media shifting?

Author:  Smoothedge69 [ Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm Not Sure I Understand...

KaraokeHeroes wrote:
So, if I buy a CDG, and I load it onto a hard drive player, and I keep the disc in a filing cabinet with a receipt to show I purchased it, am I still at risk if I get sued? Am I the kind of target SoundChoice and others would go after?

And what if I buy three CDGs and load them on three hard drive players, and keep all three discs?

What if I do that, but only hang onto one disc?

What if I buy one disc and load it on three hard drive players, all for use on the same premises?

Are these examples of media shifting?

Yes, you could face a lawsuit in all your examples. In example one you are just a technical infringer, because you are 1:1.

All of your other scenarios you are a pirate, and must buy the GEM series, or quit the business.

Author:  Cueball [ Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm Not Sure I Understand...

KaraokeHeroes wrote:
So, if I buy a CDG, and I load it onto a hard drive player, and I keep the disc in a filing cabinet with a receipt to show I purchased it, am I still at risk if I get sued?
I'm not sure I understand your question here? Are you still at risk for what if you get sued? Do you mean to ask, "Am I at risk of being sued?"? (see next quote).



KaraokeHeroes wrote:
Am I the kind of target SoundChoice and others would go after?
Yes. Anyone using a Computer is targeted. Now, as for who is doing the targeting, right now, it appears that Sound Choice is the only one (and they can only go after you for the use of their product).


KaraokeHeroes wrote:
And what if I buy three CDGs and load them on three hard drive players, and keep all three discs?
I take that to mean you purchased 3 CDGs, and loaded 1 on Harddrive A, 1 on Harddrive B, and 1 on Harddrive C. That being said, see answer above. Assuming these are SC tracks that you are referring to, if targeted (by SC), you would be named in a lawsuit. You are considered to be an "Infringer" of the copyright usage of their Logo. You would then have to submit to an Audit (by a SC Rep.) for a fee. Once you have passed their audit, you have to notify them whenever you obtain additional SC discs (that you did not have prior to your audit), and add those tracks to your Harddrive.


KaraokeHeroes wrote:
What if I do that, but only hang onto one disc?
If you buy a disc, load it onto your Harddrive, and then sell/give away/trash the disc, as long as you keep the tracks from that disc on your Harddrive, you are considered to be a Pirate. You are no longer 1:1 (meaning 1 physical disc must match up to being on 1 harddrive)... Without the actual disc in your possession, you are now 0:1.


KaraokeHeroes wrote:
What if I buy one disc and load it on three hard drive players, all for use on the same premises?
If you media shift and you are NOT 1:1 , then you are considered to be a Pirate. In this example, you are now 1:3. It doesn't matter if those Harddrives are being used on the same premises or 10 miles apart from each other.


KaraokeHeroes wrote:
Are these examples of media shifting?
Yes. Any disc which you purchase, and then transfer to a harddrive is exactly that... a media shift from disc to computer.

In your last 2 examples, if you are targeted and sued by Sound Choice, part of their settlement agreement with you requires that you purchase their GEM series (which you don't technically own because it is a lease for the use of that series), and you must destroy/erase any of the SC tracks on your Harddrive for which you do not own the discs.

Author:  Paradigm Karaoke [ Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm Not Sure I Understand...

ditto on cue's answer. you only have to worry about SC as no other company has restrictions on you media shifting to HD. if you do it with SC you must pay for the privilege and keep up with sending them updates on your purchases. outside of them, just stay 1:1 and here is no issue. if you start dealing with either material you have not bought from an authorized seller, or make more copies than you paid for, you are a pirate and are the reason we all have to make sure our colons are clean for the SC machine.

Author:  Smoothedge69 [ Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm Not Sure I Understand...

Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
ditto on cue's answer. you only have to worry about SC as no other company has restrictions on you media shifting to HD. if you do it with SC you must pay for the privilege and keep up with sending them updates on your purchases. outside of them, just stay 1:1 and here is no issue. if you start dealing with either material you have not bought from an authorized seller, or make more copies than you paid for, you are a pirate and are the reason we all have to make sure our colons are clean for the SC machine.

Actually, we don't know what will happen with Piracy Recovery, yet. We might have to clean our colons for THEM, too.

Author:  JimHarrington [ Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm Not Sure I Understand...

Smoothedge69 wrote:
Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
ditto on cue's answer. you only have to worry about SC as no other company has restrictions on you media shifting to HD. if you do it with SC you must pay for the privilege and keep up with sending them updates on your purchases. outside of them, just stay 1:1 and here is no issue. if you start dealing with either material you have not bought from an authorized seller, or make more copies than you paid for, you are a pirate and are the reason we all have to make sure our colons are clean for the SC machine.

Actually, we don't know what will happen with Piracy Recovery, yet. We might have to clean our colons for THEM, too.


If you had actually been audited by SC you would realize how ridiculous this piece of hyperbole is.

Author:  punchymcgee [ Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm Not Sure I Understand...

Smoothedge69 wrote:
KaraokeHeroes wrote:
So, if I buy a CDG, and I load it onto a hard drive player, and I keep the disc in a filing cabinet with a receipt to show I purchased it, am I still at risk if I get sued? Am I the kind of target SoundChoice and others would go after?

And what if I buy three CDGs and load them on three hard drive players, and keep all three discs?

What if I do that, but only hang onto one disc?

What if I buy one disc and load it on three hard drive players, all for use on the same premises?

Are these examples of media shifting?

Yes, you could face a lawsuit in all your examples. In example one you are just a technical infringer, because you are 1:1.

All of your other scenarios you are a pirate, and must buy the GEM series, or quit the business.


By reading one of Sound Choice's legal suits penned by Mr. Harrington's office or himself, it clearly states that Sound Choice allows a 1:1 media shift ratio.

Author:  Smoothedge69 [ Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm Not Sure I Understand...

punchymcgee wrote:
Smoothedge69 wrote:
KaraokeHeroes wrote:
So, if I buy a CDG, and I load it onto a hard drive player, and I keep the disc in a filing cabinet with a receipt to show I purchased it, am I still at risk if I get sued? Am I the kind of target SoundChoice and others would go after?

And what if I buy three CDGs and load them on three hard drive players, and keep all three discs?

What if I do that, but only hang onto one disc?

What if I buy one disc and load it on three hard drive players, all for use on the same premises?

Are these examples of media shifting?

Yes, you could face a lawsuit in all your examples. In example one you are just a technical infringer, because you are 1:1.

All of your other scenarios you are a pirate, and must buy the GEM series, or quit the business.


By reading one of Sound Choice's legal suits penned by Mr. Harrington's office or himself, it clearly states that Sound Choice allows a 1:1 media shift ratio.

Only if you get audited. It's not automatic with SC. I only wish it was automatic.

Author:  punchymcgee [ Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm Not Sure I Understand...

Direct Quote from the Karaoke Kandy Store file.

21. Slep-Tone only sells its recordings in CD+G format. Slep-Tone authorizes
its customers to “format shift” and transfer the contents of a genuine SOUND CHOICE
CD+G recording to a single computer or MP3 player, provided that the customer keeps
the original copy of the CD+G in his possession as an archival copy that is not used.

Here is mentions nothing of being audited prior to this being allowed. This comes directly from their counsel and has been filed in a federal court. I would have not problem presenting this as evidence for myself even if I havent been audited.

Author:  punchymcgee [ Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm Not Sure I Understand...

It appears that Mr. Harrington's office was not involved in the writing of this instrument.

Edit for spelling

Author:  Lone Wolf [ Sat Jun 23, 2012 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm Not Sure I Understand...

The problem with just about anything that SC's has said in the past or will say in the future, can be and will be changed whenever they feel like it, to suit their needs.

Nothing they have said has become a law. So they can change the rules, kinda like when kids play games.

Author:  Smoothedge69 [ Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm Not Sure I Understand...

punchymcgee wrote:
Direct Quote from the Karaoke Kandy Store file.

21. Slep-Tone only sells its recordings in CD+G format. Slep-Tone authorizes
its customers to “format shift” and transfer the contents of a genuine SOUND CHOICE
CD+G recording to a single computer or MP3 player, provided that the customer keeps
the original copy of the CD+G in his possession as an archival copy that is not used.

Here is mentions nothing of being audited prior to this being allowed. This comes directly from their counsel and has been filed in a federal court. I would have not problem presenting this as evidence for myself even if I havent been audited.

If you want to take the chance and shift SC's material because you read it on some website, have at it. If you get caught with their trademarks on your computer you will be named in a lawsuit for trademark infringement. You will then be FORCED into an audit that will cost you $500, as per Mr. Harrington, in order to clear your name. SC does NOT just give out permission like some of the other companies do. That is why many people are pissed off at them. You CAN shift their stuff, then ask for an audit that will cost you $150 to have done. Then you will be legit with them, and will have no trouble. You can NOT just shift their material without permission. They get very pissy about it.

Author:  kjathena [ Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm Not Sure I Understand...

I guess then he can sue the Karaoke Kandy Store for posting incorrect information ?...LOL

You would think he(KaraokeHeros) would go directly to the SC site and read what they have had posted for years now.

Athena

Author:  punchymcgee [ Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm Not Sure I Understand...

kjathena wrote:
I guess then he can sue the Karaoke Kandy Store for posting incorrect information ?...LOL

You would think he(KaraokeHeros) would go directly to the SC site and read what they have had posted for years now.

Athena


Karaoke Kandy store didnt file the lawsuit against themselves did they? My quote comes from the lawsuit filed AGAINST the Karaoke Kandy store by Slep-Tone's council on behalf of Slep-Tone. I know I dont post alot but come on. You are not using your reading comprehension skills. Again, SC's Attorney filed this lawsuit in a federal court. This is a quote from said lawsuit, not from some random website. Their lawsuit doesnt state at all that someone has to be audited in order to media shift. No wonder I dont post here, what attitudes you guys have. Geesh.

Author:  JimHarrington [ Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm Not Sure I Understand...

Does it say that you don't have to be audited?

Author:  punchymcgee [ Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm Not Sure I Understand...

I would think that if you(general) were filing a federal lawsuit you would make sure that you included all the pertinent information, for example we allow a 1-1 media shift if/when......doesnt seem too bright to have not included that tiny bit of information. Additionally does this requirement include the tracks that your client illegally produced or just the legal ones? I do not KJ anymore, but I wouldnt be afraid to media shift 1-1 without being audited.

Author:  Lonman [ Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm Not Sure I Understand...

KaraokeHeroes wrote:
So, if I buy a CDG, and I load it onto a hard drive player, and I keep the disc in a filing cabinet with a receipt to show I purchased it, am I still at risk if I get sued? Am I the kind of target SoundChoice and others would go after?
It is NOT who they are going after - they want the people that never bought a disc in their life, however it would be up to you to submit to an audit or not, otherwise you MIGHT run the risk of being named in a suit then would need to do an audit at a possible higher cost to you. Also if you do not wish to transfer (media shift) your discs to computer, and strictly run from disc - no audits are necessary. But you are talking about transferring to computer.

Quote:
And what if I buy three CDGs and load them on three hard drive players, and keep all three discs?
Same answer as number one with the addition of 3 shows, 3 systems, 3 discs in your posession for each system - nothing wrong with that.

Quote:
What if I do that, but only hang onto one disc?
This is called multi rigging where you only have 1 set of discs for multiple shows, not legal & the type of kj SC is going after. If you want to run multiple shows (3 in this example), you must buy 3 of each track or disc that you use - that is if you want the same selection on each system. But you cannot just buy one & copy it to the other two is the point.

Quote:
What if I buy one disc and load it on three hard drive players, all for use on the same premises?
Well the question would be why? If it's for back up only, I don't see you needing 2 extra players, 1 would normally suffice, but if the extra players are on the premises together at the same time and NEVER being used independantly, then I believe back-ups are permitted.

Quote:
Are these examples of media shifting?

Media shifting in your first two examples, piracy in the third re 1 disc for 3 systems.

Author:  SwingcatKurt [ Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm Not Sure I Understand...

If you are running STRICTLY DISC-BASED with NO COMPUTER INVOLVED, SC will perform an audit service for THESE individuals also........basically audit your disc collection to ensure you are not utilizing COUNTERFEIT "SC" discs. They will then provide you with a cert document on SC letterhead attesting to these results. This was done for me in Portland, Ore when Kurt Slep visited recently. They went through my 500 disc collection and declared it free of COUNTERFEIT SOUNDCHOICE media. Their new Oregon Auditor is handling the paperwork for my "Certification" Document. He also came and did a certification at the bar I KJ at (all disc, we have a total of 10 SC Discs and laser--no puter) and SC will be providing a "Cert" document for the bar also.

So Disc-Based KJ's are not forgotten!!

Author:  Paradigm Karaoke [ Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm Not Sure I Understand...

HarringtonLaw wrote:
Does it say that you don't have to be audited?


does it say you do? you are taking me to court with a document saying that i was doing what you are allowing me to do.
it doesn't say i have to stand on my head and sing i'm a little teapot either, so how can it be brought up? write whatever you want in the suit and change it as you go along in court?

"Slep-Tone authorizes its customers to “format shift” and transfer the contents of a genuine SOUND CHOICE
CD+G recording to a single computer or MP3 player, provided that the customer keeps
the original copy of the CD+G in his possession as an archival copy that is not used."

this is what it says, no more, no less. no stipulations other than keep the original archived. a judge is going to be so happy with "i know that's what i said to the court, but i didn't mean it, i want to add another stipulation or two in there your honor."

Author:  Smoothedge69 [ Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm Not Sure I Understand...

Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
HarringtonLaw wrote:
Does it say that you don't have to be audited?


does it say you do? you are taking me to court with a document saying that i was doing what you are allowing me to do.
it doesn't say i have to stand on my head and sing i'm a little teapot either, so how can it be brought up? write whatever you want in the suit and change it as you go along in court?

"Slep-Tone authorizes its customers to “format shift” and transfer the contents of a genuine SOUND CHOICE
CD+G recording to a single computer or MP3 player, provided that the customer keeps
the original copy of the CD+G in his possession as an archival copy that is not used."

this is what it says, no more, no less. no stipulations other than keep the original archived. a judge is going to be so happy with "i know that's what i said to the court, but i didn't mean it, i want to add another stipulation or two in there your honor."

OH GOODY!!! Let's all start shifting SC discs!! HELL YEAH!!!



Kidding, relax. Don't start drooling Mr. Harrington.

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