Karaoke Scene's Karaoke Forums :: more Florida pirates out of business

1. By virtue of their defaults in this matter, each of the Defaulting
Defendants are deemed to have admitted those facts alleged in the Complaint, as
outlined above, that are material to Slep-Tone’s claims against them. See
Buchanan v. Bowman, 820 F.2d 359, 361 (11th Cir. 1987).

...
Orphan Brands can not offer written permission either so they are out.
...

no Hitech, I am saying anyone enjoined can not use any orphaned or overseas brand digitally as they can not get written permission to media-shift in advance. If SC is able to continue to get this included in the lawsuits LEGAL KJ's will be able to start making real money again. I do not see many enjoined going back to using discs. Hopefully this will enlighten many to the reason to request pro-active audits or at least discourage most from ignoring the lawsuits after being served.

Author:	kjathena [ Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:	more Florida pirates out of business
http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/di ... 1329479397 Please read carefully as although only defaults some precedence have been set re: media-shifting and permanent enjoynment from karaoke BIG HAPPY DANCES THESE ARE IN MY LITTLE PART OF THE WORLD

Author:	earthling12357 [ Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: more Florida pirates out of business
It's a foolish move to ignore a legal action to the point of default. They would have been better off buying the gem set if it was offered. However, this is not precedent setting and there is no permanent injunction from karaoke. It's a rather unspectacular default win, but a win.

Author:	kjathena [ Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: more Florida pirates out of business
re read earthling GRANTED and ORDERED# 6 states the enjoyment clearly and it's from ALL manufactures unless they receive WRITTEN permission in advance. Since overseas companies can not offer permission in the USA or Canada they are out Orphan Brands can not offer written permission either so they are out. If and enjoined party wished to receive permission from a USA manufacture how much do you think they would have to pay? If I were SC I wouldn't even consider it until the judgment was paid then would charge a premium...just my opinion. You are correct A KJ is really impaired to ignore a lawsuit. You are incorrect precedence can and has been set in this default. KjAthena

Author:	earthling12357 [ Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: more Florida pirates out of business
I read it clearly the first time. It specifically refers to digital files that are marked with a trademark. They are still free to use discs. They can also use digital files of which they can prove their purchase. Technically they could use unmarked tracks as well. That's hardly a permanent boot from karaoke. Of course the smart move would be to leave the business before pressing their luck, but pirates, especially the those who default have already proven their "smartness". Yeah, these are all technicalities, but technicalities are what soundchoice uses to get these default judgments.

Author:	kjathena [ Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: more Florida pirates out of business
you are correct they could play from disc...but even if they could prove purchase they can never use digital files *without prior written permission*. ORPHAN LABELS CAN NOT PRODUCE THE WRITTEN PERMISSION SO NO cheap discs....OVERSEAS BRANDS CAN NOT GIVE PERMISSION FOR USE IN US AN CANADA due to their licencing (worldwide except USA/Canada)Unmarked tracks would be just plain stupid as well as they would have to show they owned the sync licencing to have/produce them. I can not speak for all those who default but I can state with a HUGE smile on my face that we tracked down and purchased the discs of the biggest person that defaulted in this case (he sold them in 3 batches and it took use 3 years) so he will not be returning to the biz...the other two have stated they own no discs to me personally. THEY ARE OUT OF BUSINESS

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Author:	Paradigm Karaoke [ Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: more Florida pirates out of business
wow, they can not even play anymore? $15,000 for ripping to hard drive? if they were not backups from discs they own, i get it. but that kind of money, stated for just ripping to the drive? Sorry guys, i have lost every bit of respect i had for Kurt right now. this ruling had nothing to do with piracy or stolen tracks, it was only about prick waving that they can control everything even after the sale. "Slep-Tone has been harmed by the Defaulting Defendants’ infringing activities." somebody.....ANYBODY.....tell me how ripping my discs to hard drive harmed anybody? no one....Athena, Kurt, Harrington, NOT EVEN THE COURT has ever given any way that Slep-Tone gets harmed by this! ANYBODY....GIVE ME A REASON TO NOT GO THE WAY OF BANNING ALL SC MATERIAL AT MY SHOWS FOR THE PURE RAGE I AM FEELING FROM THE LACK OF ETHICS HERE.

Author:	kjathena [ Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: more Florida pirates out of business
no you mis-read Paradigm. The Kj that claimed he ripped without permission was ordered to pay 5000.00 Statutory damages for media shifting without permission (he refused to show his disc during discovery from what he said to others and I was told),and the $10.000 for counterfeit marks in the default judgment. He may have also MAY have angered the court by appearing by attny on march 7th and then refusing to answer after the court ruled against him on March 8th 2011 The 2 Kj's that used counterfeit marks (had no discs) were ordered to pay $10.000 in the default judgment. They never answered in any manner All were enjoined. the basis for the cases from the beginning has been media-shifting without prior permission is NOT allowed. SC has stated they will allow the media-shift of their trademark and refrain from suing KJ's that undergo a pro-active audit, and Maybe now KJ's will realize the need to request pro-active audits. I am sorry you are so outraged and surprised that this has occurred. corrections made to clarify

Author:	earthling12357 [ Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: more Florida pirates out of business
This case sets no precedent except perhaps for other default judgements in that court by that judge. It is completely different from a case that is argued. The judge used the precedent from Buchanan v. Bowman, 820 F.2d 359, 361 (11th Cir. 1987) as the reasoning for accepting their default as an admission of the facts submitted. The outcome in this case can't be used as a guide for deciding a case where the defendant does not default.

Author:	Lisah [ Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: more Florida pirates out of business
Curious, is it true the venues are being sued, losing liquor licenses etc, also?

Author:	timberlea [ Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: more Florida pirates out of business
Read carefully paragraphs 10, 11, and 12 of the Findings of Fact. It basically says using a copy without authorization makes it a counterfeit. Also paragraph 2, 3, and 4 of Conclusions of Law which explains the damages, and again states the unauthorized copy is a counterfeit. Lisah, that is the purview of the individual State/Provincial Liquor Boards who grant the licences and the laws that govern them.

Author:	kjathena [ Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:34 am ]
Post subject:	Re: more Florida pirates out of business
paradigm, "12. An unauthorized digitized copy of the Plaintiff’s karaoke discs or music tracks is a counterfeit. (Compl., ¶ 48.) already proven to be perfectly legal years ago. music tracks can be copied, we all know this one,(ok music tracks can be copied)HOWEVER has has been explained due to the graphics additions in karaoke CDG's fall under software not music rules) nothing new except this judge ignoring the law."sorry but the distinction between music rules and software rules are very enlightening. The Judge ignored nothing

Author:	earthling12357 [ Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:26 am ]
Post subject:	Re: more Florida pirates out of business
Those "findings of fact" are the facts that soundchoice submitted in their complaint and went unopposed when the defendants defaulted. It is stated as such in nuber one of the conculsions of law. Quote: 1. By virtue of their defaults in this matter, each of the Defaulting Defendants are deemed to have admitted those facts alleged in the Complaint, as outlined above, that are material to Slep-Tone’s claims against them. See Buchanan v. Bowman, 820 F.2d 359, 361 (11th Cir. 1987). Since the precedent set in Buchanan v. Bowman, 820 F.2d 359, 361 (11th Cir. 1987) allows for the plaintiffs complaints to be found as fact in a default for the purpose of the judgment it was so. But only because it was a default. It means nothing to a future defendant that does not default.

Author:	Cueball [ Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:13 am ]
Post subject:	Re: more Florida pirates out of business
I still want to hear about the end results... Did the Defendants Pay the judgement? Are they out of business? And, don't hand me the "If they don't pay, they can be charged, and/or arrested, and/or have their assets seized." lines. I want to hear if that actually happened too!

Author:	kjathena [ Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:46 am ]
Post subject:	Re: more Florida pirates out of business
Cueball, I will keep everyone advised as these are right in my little part of the world. I can at this time state with confidence. A judgment is not something to be taken lightly. It can not be discharged in bankruptcy and is reported on your credit report as long as it is active (7years and can be renewed). This can cost considerably in the cost of credit, insurance and even in the ability to get a job. Pay can be garnished, and with some exceptions properties can be seized. Any inheritances or winnings can be attached I am unsure if these 3 are even aware of the final judgment at this time however I can state, one has not worked doing shows for at least 3 months and I had heard he sold all his equipment so he is out of business. One is working locally and I expect his venues to be notified of the enjoyment pretty soon. Guess they will be looking for a new LEGAL KJ unless they want to be named for vicarious liability. Will post when I know this has been done. The other I am unsure of, He had been lying low just playing animal clubs last I heard. I assume it will take awhile for the collections process so that may take a bit to track....if SC wishes to share

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Author:	hiteck [ Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:28 am ]
Post subject:	Re: more Florida pirates out of business
kjathena wrote: ... Orphan Brands can not offer written permission either so they are out. ... Are you saying you can't legally use any manu that is no longer in business?

Author:	kjathena [ Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:35 am ]
Post subject:	Re: more Florida pirates out of business
no Hitech, I am saying anyone enjoined can not use any orphaned or overseas brand digitally as they can not get written permission to media-shift in advance. If SC is able to continue to get this included in the lawsuits LEGAL KJ's will be able to start making real money again. I do not see many enjoined going back to using discs. Hopefully this will enlighten many to the reason to request pro-active audits or at least discourage most from ignoring the lawsuits after being served.

Author:	c. staley [ Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:57 am ]
Post subject:	Re: more Florida pirates out of business
Let's not all get your panties in a bunch here. Legal precedents can only be set with a published decision on a rule of law. NOT a default judgment. No such precedent was created here..... The sky is not falling.... no celebration is necessary.... It's just a lot of white noise. Earthling12357 is correct.... Carry on....

Author:	hiteck [ Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: more Florida pirates out of business
kjathena wrote: no Hitech, I am saying anyone enjoined can not use any orphaned or overseas brand digitally as they can not get written permission to media-shift in advance. If SC is able to continue to get this included in the lawsuits LEGAL KJ's will be able to start making real money again. I do not see many enjoined going back to using discs. Hopefully this will enlighten many to the reason to request pro-active audits or at least discourage most from ignoring the lawsuits after being served. OK maybe I'm showing my ignorance here (that's ok) what do you mean by enjoined?

Author:	kjathena [ Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:26 am ]
Post subject:	Re: more Florida pirates out of business
Hiteck, prohibited by the court = enjoined (legalspeak) SC is putting pirates out of business. Yes we are still awaiting the slow court system with a case "taken all the way" but these default judgments do mean something. ChipS no reply about this other than "white noise" and "Let's not all get your panties in a bunch here"