Karaoke Forums

I have (but no longer use) a VocoPro soundboard that has a nifty vocal elimnation feature. I used it occasionally for songs that I could not find karaoke versions of or to allow singers to bring in their original artists songs and just strip off the vocals. I still have the VocoPro soundboard and it will temporarily get used when I add in my second show.

With all the legal talk going on here, I thought I would inquire as to what opinions are on the legality of using original recordings with vocals stripped out for karaoke. Obviously no lyrics get displayed in this case so we eliminate that out of the gate.

I would consider investing in better quality vocal elimination if there are no legal repurcussions.

Thoughts?

-Chris

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-Chris

Well one consequence, is that you won't be able to hear the voice on the recording very well any more.....
You'll also lose the intensity of some of the music that falls around the same frequency of the vocals.
Nothing I've seen or heard of gets rid of all the vocal, or doesn't cause some reduction in the quality of the music.
If voice & music were on seperate right & left tracks like some of the old recordings......it would be feasible

Here's how most software vocal eliminators work:

First, you have a left and right track. Some instruments are recorded on the left, some on the right and (usually) vocals are "panned to the middle" so they come out both sides. Reverb on the voices usually is not -- it's slightly offset both left and right.

And usually, some instruments -- like guitars and saxophones -- are also panned to the middle.

So, the left and right signal voltages are inverted and the signal data then moved so that left becomes right and right becomes left.

This effectively puts all center-panned sound closer together and because the voltages were inverted they now cancel themselves out.

The end result will diminish the singer's voice alright, BUT it might also get rid of the guitars/saxes/other instruments panned to the middle. AND, the singer's reverb may still be present, although softer. So it will sound like the original singer is singing along at the end of a looong tunnel.

So vocal elimination really depends on how the original track was recorded and where/which side(s) everything was recorded on. I remember years ago, I purchased the South Park CD (regular, not karaoke) and tried to mask out the vocals.... everything -- literally EVERYTHING went away except for the drum. Voices, guitars, saxes and whatever else they used was gone... A real shocker to me at the time.

So vocal elimination is a hit-or-miss chance you take. You can hear Phil Collins' voice on some Sunfly tracks and even on the foundation SC you can hear that in "Keep Your Hands To Yourself" by the Georgia Satellites. Crank up the volume and listen carefully.... the voice is there.

Thanks for the info on the technical aspects of how vocal elimination works.

My question was regarding the legality of using original recordings along with volcal elimination. Can a CD be used with vocal elimination for karaoke purposes without running afoul of the law? Again, no printed or displayed lyrics. The singer has that memorized. Just stripping original artists vocals for the purpose of doing karaoke.

-Chris

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-Chris

I don't know what you think you're hearing on that recording, but SC has never used vocal elimination to produce a karaoke track. You would be well counseled to retract your comment.

Then I shall rephrase my comment:



Happy now?

What I believe you are hearing is bleed through from other mics in the studio. I would be willing to bet that every track SC ever recorded has a vocal track on the master, even if it was never released on a disc.

Glad to know I'm not the only that hears it....

These particular voices are real. The other ones you hear...not so much.

I have heard the hint of underlying vocal tracks on some songs (not original vocals by any stretch). It's just the bleed over from the original multitrack source before mixdown. Was alot more common on the older analog muli-trackers. It was just the vocals for the demo tracks, every song was still recorded with vocals, whether they were made into a multiplex disc or not. I've heard the vocals with Pioneer & DK as well.

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As far as on the fly (or pre done) vocal removal it should be legal (assuming the track is owned legally and can be used legally at the venue).

If it is legal to play the song in its natural state, it should be legal to adjust the tracks in any way to adjust the tracks electronicaly in terms of "mix". This would be no different from a DJ "mixing" the track on the fly for a show.

To make it true karaoke would probably not be legal in that syncing lyrics to the track is a whole different matter if royalties were not paid or approved.

Again as many have said it does not work for many songs and for others it does not work well.

I can assume with SC or other karaoke songs that have been made, sometimes the studio artists may have sung along just to help keep the cadence of the song and help with the timeing of the song. That singing was not intended to be used on the karaoke track, but may have bled over from other instrument mics on the performance. The SC songs were not made with vocal removal, but differences of opinion can occur as to what was and was not the backing vocals, vs main vocals. Many songs have the two in harmony in parts.

Maybe that was the reason for the infamous pan flute.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.