Karaoke Forums

Knox County Tennessee Law Director issued this letter to establishments who have beer permits.



Maybe I can get the Nevada State Gaming Commission to do the same as well as the A.B.C. and send them to every karaoke venue that advertises in any local newspaper, website, or other publications!

_________________
"Just Say NO, To Justin Bieber & His Beatle Haircut"

How many resources are going to be allocated to check for suspected karaoke piracy, are they going to form a special task force to deal with the problem? Just because you have something on the books you have to bewilling to allocate the resources for proper enforcement.

your right....just pay $500.00 a year to someone.....and download all your music from torrents. that will keep the new music flowing from the manus.

_________________
Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

As far as Sound Choice is concerned what new music? If Chartbuster follows their business model pretty soon they will stop making new product also and they will become professional legal litigants to. If what I suspect is true they might both be out of business before any of these lawsuits go to trial, due to lack of resources.

Looks like Knox County is jumping on the band wagon with both feet.
I'm wondering if CB might have put a bug in their ear.

Would be easier for the TABC commission to check for illegal karaoke than it is for SC or CB, all they have to do is ask the owner "Do you have Karaoke" if the owner replies yes then they could ask "Are they legal" if the answer is "I don't know", well they better find out or loose their permit easy as could be, no undercover PI needed as its done by a state employee with the power to pull permits on the spot and close the place down. I'll bet more club owners will be looking closely at this.

_________________
I like everyone when I first meet them. If you don't like me that's not my problem it's YOURS!
A stranger is a friend you haven't met yet

On the surface, it appears as though that letter applies only to the "permitee." Which is the venue itself if it owns and operates the equipment.

Otherwise, a "karaoke company" is not a "permitee" that holds a permit to dispense alcohol and therefore a club can run karaoke by hiring an outside company....

Lone Ranger:

The resources are the same resources that are already utilized to enforce compliance with the liquor licensing requirements. There is more to a liquor license than merely the requirement to not engage in illegal activity. By sending notice to beer permittee(s) that the local law agencies are aware of this particular activity, you are in effect, reinforcing the law. Having spent decades behind the bar, and having seen the laws regarding smoking in bars change right here in my town, it is not inconceivable that the inspector would have another section on his list to deal with venues that offer karaoke entertainment. It is exactly this scenario that Sound Choice's Safe Harbor program was conceived to address. Their program is voluntary, the liquor licensing agency's requirements are compulsory.

Also, letters like the one in the OP are also contributing to the effort to educate those that involve themselves and their businesses with karaoke entertainment on the acceptable methods and legality of the issues surrounding the subject.

... when I previewed my post, I saw Lone Wolf's post and I would like to say: EXACTLY! The liquor licensing agency wherever you are is certainly within it's power to require that a business owner have direct knowledge about about the legality of activities that take place on the premises. They can pull your license for any suspected illegal activity, even if it occurs without your being aware of it (like drug sales in the bathroom for example).

_________________
Never the same show twice!

Actually it says that any permittee that knowing violates ANY LAW, Federal, State or Local.

So I'm guessing that if anything Illegal is going on at the place of business they can shut it down, not just karaoke but a violation of ANY LAW and that could be just about anything being that local laws come into play. (ex: It is illegal to not have your fire extinguisher up to date)

_________________
I like everyone when I first meet them. If you don't like me that's not my problem it's YOURS!
A stranger is a friend you haven't met yet

And the club would be liable for any illegal activity conducted on the premises by ANY outside company.

Remember c. staley the liquor licensing agencies and their agents are not bound by court proceedings to act. They can (and often do, as I have witnessed) pull your license first and ask questions later.

Wouldn't you feel more secure knowing that your venues' answer to the question of whether they were employing a legitimate karaoke service provider would be an emphatic "Absolutely!"? With a supporting "Here's how we know." I'm certain that my clients are aware of my status with regard to piracy. How would you go about making certain that your clients would answer this way?

_________________
Never the same show twice!

They can do several things, usually they are not so eager to close down a profitable business, that is paying it's taxes, especially in a depressed economy. When they talk about illegal activity they are more concerned, usually with drugs, gambling and prostitution. Oh any firearms violations are also top of the list.

Are YOU the "permitee?"

There has to be a line somewhere and it's drawn at the permitee. It may be different in different places but it looks like this letter is fairly limiting to those venues that own their own equipment and have an employee run it.

Lone Ranger:

The whole point is that they don't have to pull their license and/or shut down a profitable business if the business exercises due diligence when employing ANY outside vendor or service provider.

A few years ago, right here in Vail. There was a successful concert venue (several) that employed the services of a band called "Lez Zeppelin". These musicians were awesome and they truly reproduced a sound that was a tribute to the band we know as Led Zeppelin.

Problem was... even though Robert Plant himself personally endorsed the band, the attorneys and the publishers/rights holders didn't sign off on the "tribute band" idea.

It was a big deal around here as wealthy club owners and well-paid attorneys wrangled over the issues until the local municipalities stepped in and rather than damage the town's reputation and draw for popular entertainers (we get quite a few well known entertainers through here) they suggested they'd "review" the license status of the venues that booked the band. It really sucks for the band, and I know that they are still out there touring, so I have to assume they worked something out or likely, they'd no longer be out there.

So, yep, local government & law enforcement agencies can help against piracy.

_________________
Never the same show twice!

Yeah, those girls played Tahoe a few times & they are awesome!

_________________
"Just Say NO, To Justin Bieber & His Beatle Haircut"

I LIKE IT!

_________________
Dave's not here.

Actually the Virginia ABC Board has much the same rules, and they constantly have undercovers working the bars for violations ie: underage drinking, nudity, over intoxicated patrons, failure to ID, etc. and any violation can mean an instant 72 hour hold on alcohol sales and after a hearing a first act can result in the loss of the liquor license for a period of up to 30 days and a fine of up to $5,000. I really like the idea I am going to send an e-mail to SC and CB about the use of this in Virginia.

The great thing about Virginia is that it doesn't have to be an act commited by the bar just sanctioned by it. If a 21 year old patron is supplying alcohol to a 19 year old and the bar allows it to continue the bar can have it's permit pulled. If patrons are exposing themselves to the general population and the bar allows it without sanction they can lose their permit, etc. etc..

An excellent idea and in Virginia it is state wide.

Together with the manus suing those in violation and Alcohol control boards policing the venues, then the manus could use the ABC board findings as evidence against the pirate and venues as well.

If every state or municipality was to embrace this it could clear piracy out very quickly.

Even if it were to mean going back to a completey disc based system I would still be for it.
Finally something Joe C can approve of "a government agency enforcing compliance".

I think it should be extended to include live entertainment at venues that haven't properly paid their ASCAP fees.

Breaking the law has always been cause for revoking a liquor license. A permitee can lose his license for breaking the law outside of his establishment completely unconnected to the business. It's part of the worthiness of holding the license. Nothing has changed there except letting the permitee know that one can break the law with karaoke.

The key word is "Knowingly". If the permitee operates his own system, he knows if it's legal. If he hires an outsider and accepts his word on legality, he's not knowingly doing anything illegal. Without evidence it's hard to prove what a person knows or does not know.

It's nice to see law enforcement getting involved, but I suspect the letter might be as far as they'll go with it.

_________________
KNOW THYSELF

Yes but once a licensee has been informed that a system may be illegal it would be up to him to verify it. Once that happens then allowing a pirate to continue to operate in the venue would be "knowingly".

If a licensee was informed that a system may be illegal, I would expect that to come with some evidence to support the accusation. Otherwise, the verification could be as simple as asking.

"Is this legal?"
"Yes it is."
"OK thanks, just needed to be sure."

_________________
KNOW THYSELF

It is really as simple as asking, "is your KJ using a computer?"

YES

"Does he have authorization from these manus ______, ______, _______ to shift their media."

How can I tell?

"Ask to see the authorization paper work (oh and here is what it looks like)!"

Now he is knowledgeable, informed and knows how to check.