Karaoke Forums

Is there a site where you can download (Soundchoice version) songs, and have the sound, and graphics immediately? The reason I'm asking is that some people that come to my show are asking me if I can get songs that way, "because so-in-so at another show" does it all the time. I asked them if they know where he is getting them from, and they have no idea. From what I understand, he says that if the song is on karaoke, he can get it, and if it's not in his book, "just ask". A singer asks for a certain song, and by the (next rotation), he has the song. The reason I asked about (Soundchoice version), is because I thought you can't get a Soundchoice version on download, which they said he does all the time. Also is there a site where you can get (any version) of songs mp3+g immediately? I don't connect my "show" computer to the internet, but would be interested in downloading, and having the song for the next show. I thought all downloads were just mp3 without graphics. As you can see, I KNOW NOTHING about karaoke downloads, but would like to be able to compete, "IF" it's legal. If this thread turns into a "legal issue" thread, please feel free to move it to that section.

Rosario
Serenity Now Karaoke

Sound Choice tracks (MP3+G which include graphics) can be downloaded from thekaraokechannel.com, however according to Sound Choice, those tracks are only licensed for individual use not use by KJ's. There are many other sites that vary as to their legitimacy where you can also purchase tracks with graphics (again the MP3+G) format. Tricerasoft is a legit site that has mostly Sunfly and SBI. BuyKaraokeDownloads.com and karaoke-singles.com are two others. I'm pretty sure the first is not legit and the second is definitely not.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Until the USA comes up with a licensing agent for karaoke like Europe has, Downloads aren't legal in the US for commercial purposes. Europe has the only license and that license is not usable at this time in the us.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

I don't know that people would want to sing songs off a my zipper...... ....might get their eye poked out.....

If they are SoundChoice, what "so and so" is probably doing is downloading them illegally off newsgroups (usenet) on demand. I have seen it done.

Personally I use the Tricerasoft site. It works great and if you buy the large 75 song "gift pack" it is very cost-effective.



What law states this?

According to Kurt from Sound Choice there is no licensing for commercial use program in the USA like there is overseas. While tricerasoft names ASCAP and BMI as possible agents, they don't have the ability to license the lyric sweeps of the product.

For home use it is fine but for commercial use you need the necessary license to use it.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

When Kurt Slep becomes an official organ of contract law and following his pronouncements becomes a matter of statute, then we will all have to listen. Until then, we do what we do and if we get sued it is on our heads. Kurt seems to be a bigger source of lawsuits than anyone in this area, so I invite him to file away.

In short, there is no case "on all fours" anywhere I know of. When someone can point to it, then I will pay attention.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

Call Soundchoice, ask them. 1-800-788-4487

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"It looks just like a Telefunken U47 !"

As I said, they are nothing to me or anyone else. Why would I ask them?

If I were downloading their songs, that would be one thing. But I am not. All I have ever done with them is buy their disks.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

I have purchased about 20-30 songs over the years from buykaraokedownloads.com. These versions are usually terrible, but they appease the singer who just has to sing a particular song that I don't have.

I have questioned their legitamacy before, but there seems to be no definitive answer as to whether the songs are legal for KJs. I have since quit purchasing songs because of this, and also because the cost has doubled. Their prices used to be 99 cents per song, but most now go for $1.99.

Kurt can speak for Sound Choice, who currently do not sell as downloads.

He can not speak at all for the legality of downloading some of the other companies that sell their music as downloads. Especially if those products are sold from other countries and are compliant with the laws there. The trade laws allow us to buy products made overseas if they are compliant with the trademark/royalty laws there. Ironically this includes SC disks that are now made in the UK. If Kurt is correct in his arguement that products made overseas under different laws cant be used in a commercial setting in the US, then recently made SC disks are illegal as well.

I cant imagine that in a country where we can legally download movies and music (from legitimate licensed sellers who have the rights to sell them) it is illegal to sell Karaoke as downloads.

This is not to say people can't illegaly sell downloads (and they do for many products including karaoke), but that it can be legal to sell downloads of karaoke.

As for public performance that is covered by ASCAP/BMI and not at the time of purchase of the media, despite what Kurt wants.

He can sell products with a disclaimer, "for private use only" but until that is tested in court he is on questionable grounds in making it a legaly enforcable condition.

Danny, is a imported CDG disc (custom burned or not) legally different than a download?

Define imported. If you mean from overseas, then no there isn't a legal difference.

If you mean discs that you import onto a computer then yes there is a difference.
Downloads require special licensing that isn't available in the US. CD's you import into your computer is look at as fair use as in the cat is out of the bag.

Now if you ask me whether or not you'll be called upon concerning downloads, my best guess is no, not unless you go through an audit of your system for KIAA. They'll overlook a few songs but you have to have over 95 to 98% discs for every song you have on the hard drive.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

OK let's be clear here, it is not the law or ASCAP or BMI that are preventing those tracks from being licensed for commercial use, it's Sound Choice. The fact of the matter is Sound Choice has the ability to license their material however they choose. Regardless of how you get the music, whether it's on CD or in an MP3, ASCAP and BMI are going to make sure that the artists get their royalties. Look at a regular album track for instance, you can buy it as an MP3 from Amazon or buy it on a disc, either way you now own a license of that track. However, if you play it in a public setting, the artists get compensated for that "Public Performance" through ASCAP, BMI or whatever group they work with.

Sound Choice's dilemma is this, they don't get compensated by ASCAP or BMI for the music. They are not the original artists and therefore do not get the royalties. So THEY WANT to get paid for "Public Performance" as well. However, the only thing they have a right to claim royalties for are the sweeping lyrics as that is the only part that is technically their original work (even though the words themselves are not). Unfortunately for them ASCAP/BMI are not interested in collecting royalties for artistic works beyond music and therefore will not collect for Sound Choice or the rest of the Manus. There are no similar groups that are willing to do this for them at this point.

So Sound Choice's decision has been to force KJ's to buy discs, with mostly useless songs that will never get sung because their profit margin is much better that way. This is why they've fought so hard against format shift as well because they make more money if you're forced to buy another copy of a CD if it gets damaged.

Now for those of you that are going to say well that's wrong because Sound Choice says this or that, listen to or read what they have to say very carefully. They speak in misleading ways but if you pay attention to the letter of what they say you'll see it all fits the exact situation above. They try to deflect blame over and over again toward the artists, ASCAP, whomever but the fact of the matter is if that the only difference between a downloaded track being licensed for private use and for "commercial" use is a decision made by Sound Choice based on profitability.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Yet even Karaoke Version states that without the licensing agent for karaoke, their stuff can't be used commercially.

From their FAQ's:
Can I use your instrumental tracks for public performances?
Use for public events
We are happy to allow the use of our soundtracks for public audiences and other performances.
However, we'd like to remind you that in order to be legally compliant, you must receive an official agreement from your national music rights management office (MCPS in the UK for example).
In the case of a non-commercial private event, use of soundtracks is, of course, allowed and unrestricted.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

The problem is the laws truely are a maze and no clear laws or court cases have settled the matter, and it is not really in the interest of anyone to do so in the industry.

As for imported. Look at recent Sound choice disks, they are imports not made under US law in the UK. No different than other import discs of Sunfly, Zoom etc.
Sunfly and Zoom make no distinction under UK law for downloads vs discs and public use, so clearly format is not an issue in the UK. For trade laws a product made legally legal in the UK it is legal in the US (but that may not apply to all countries).

As for karaoke version's disclaimer. They are a French company and would have to operate under French laws. I am relatively familiar with the UK and US laws on the matter by research but French laws are going to be far beyond my limited ability to read French (or even find the laws). In any case the KV disclaimer seems to suggest that you only need to pay Ascap/Bmi etc, as you would have to regardless of the Manu.

DR. Fred, that is all well and good but that only covers the performance. It does not cover the video portion of the tracks.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

I can see how your best guess might tell you that. But it is only a guess, based upon how you think things might go if suit were brought. Show me where it is written down in case law or published statute, and I will start to pay attention.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

EXACTLY! Who is going to take you to court for singing a Karaoke Version track??? If the artist is getting his money from ascap or BMI for the music who is going to complain about the lyrics being displayed? I doubt that KV is going to send someone from France to catch someone singing a song in a bar. If you bought the track from them and made your own CDG file, then who can legally file a law suit against you for using the lyrics on screen??

If Ascap/BMI do not have the ability to license public performance of karaoke in the US, then they would not be able to charge their fees for "Public performance of karaoke".

I believe that this licensing has been tested in court, and ASCAP/BMI have won several cases including for karaoke.

I seem to recall seeing on the ASCAP/BMI licenses for bars etc, there is a special section where they charge fees for and license specifically karaoke. If the ascap/bmi did not cover the video of karaoke it would not be a different catagory from live cover bands or regular music recordings.

Therefore in the US, ASCAP/BMI are the "Musical rights management office" reffered to at karaoke version.

A BIG part of the problem is "Commercial Use" is a broad catagory including many other things beyond mere performance in a public establishment. Many of those uses (for example movies, commercials etc) require additonal licensing from the artist that wrote the song. Problem is commercial use and public performance are often used interchangably, and often that is incorrect in some circumstances.

(of course this topic should have moved to the legal thread a while ago)