Karaoke Forums

Chris,

Look at the average age of the majority of KJs you know. All the young guys want to be DJs not host a karaoke show. I brought my son in the business when he was 19 and in all my travels around the country singing karaoke, I've never seen anyone else that age running a show. The real question is what happens when all the KJs age out of the business?

The opinion that those not posting on this topic are pirates, or are afraid of getting targeted is way off base. Maybe it could be that there just isn't any horse left to beat?

The lack of posting in this forum is attributable to the essentially settled positions of the two sides of this argument.

Most of the discussion-driving posts are made by people whose primary purpose is to cast SC in the most negative light possible, often through patently dishonest statements and inflammatory language. I do what I can to respond with correct information, but the simple fact is that regardless of the truth, regardless of any evidence I might provide, those people will never be persuaded. Because the truth and its evidence contradict their entrenched positions, they are emotionally compelled to discount or ignore it.

My responses are not directed at those people. For whatever reason, they have developed so much anger toward SC that they cannot see straight. My responses, instead, are directed at those who casually read this forum, perhaps without posting, who are looking for information about these issues.

This project will be five years old in a few months. It has not been a perfect process or an unqualified success (though I will point out that SC is still in business after 5 years, which would not be the case if we had not acted). There are many things that we would change if we had them to do over again. The settled opposition to this process, to be sure, does not include everyone who has issues with the project. But the settled opposition is mostly based on something other than the truth. Calling what we do "extortion" or "intimidation" isn't helpful or accurate or justified. It's just inflammatory.

Five years, and what have you accomplished?? Piracy is still rampant, and people care less now than they did back then. Piracy hasn't decreased even a percentage point.

_________________
I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

What is the point of being in business if they aren't producing anything??

_________________
I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Lots of companies stay in business a long time making the same thing, year in and year out, with very few changes. Converse dominated the U.S. athletic shoe market for 60 years with a single model that's still sold today. Coca-Cola made no significant changes to its formula and had no other significant brands in the U.S. between about 1905 and 1963, when it introduced Tab.

The point of being in business is to make money, not to make products (except as a means of making money).

I believe this type of statement, especially the last sentence, sums up the extreme degradation of a company's existence, which is, if "the point", as stated above, is all a company has, it no longer is a truly viable entity in society. Some might look at a statement like that and affix the label "leach" to such a company...

You're entitled to your opinion, but (1) I did not say it was "all [SC] has," and (2) your expectation that the point of a for-profit business is something other than to make a profit is unrealistic. This is yet another example of what I was talking about--you're so angry with SC that you can't see straight.

I think that if you polled all of the for-profit business owners in the United States as to what the point of their businesses was, nearly all of them would say "to make money." Maybe they also have other goals, and maybe they give up some profit in order to do business a certain way, but the ultimate goal is to make money--and if it's not, they won't be in business long. I know that the businesses I run are run in order to turn a profit. I don't include my law firm as one of those businesses--there are most definitely other points to that profession; the money is a side consideration--but as for the others, if they aren't profitable, there is no sense wasting my time on them.

Consider for a moment a situation in which you had a job working for a company, and you were required to put in a certain number of hours, but you would only be paid if the business ran a profit. How long would you go without pay before finding a different job? Not long, I'd wager. That's exactly the situation that business owners, especially those for whom involvement in the business is how they make money, find themselves in every day. There is nothing inherently evil about profit. Some profit is a requirement of civilization.

Making a profit, while not producing anything is called Organized Crime.

_________________
I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

I'm going to assume you meant "without" producing anything.

But if you're trying to tag SC with that, you're simply wrong on the facts.

SC may not be producing new products, but it does produce products.

So, the Mister Softee and Good Humor Trucks are part of Organized Crime? They make icecream, and I'm pretty sure they're making a profit.

Did you mean
Making a profit, while not producing anything is called Organized Crime?

What do the following produce?
Bank of America
Chase Bank
CitiBank
Wells Fargo
TD Bank

I'm pretty sure they're all earning a profit.

And they are a bigger organized crime syndicate then the mob ever was. And, yes, I meant "while not".

_________________
I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

So Jim is that the company game plan to keep pushing the old product which everyone that want's it already has? While focusing the company's limited resources on this failed recovery legal process? It doesn't sound to me the company has much of a future if all it can do is use the threat of suing to drive future sales.

Fundamentally untrue. Joe is decidedly anti-Sound Choice, and I don't think anyone considers him a pirate. Joe seems pretty well-liked here. I like Joe.

_________________
Co-host of The Greatest Song Ever Sung (Poorly), a karaoke-themed podcast

"And they are a bigger organized crime syndicate then the mob ever was. And, yes, I meant "while not"."

What utter tripe, but I expect no less from you.

_________________
You can be strange but not a stranger

If you are talking about big banks they are more dangerous than organized crime since they have a greater impact on the economy. Did you see "Too Big To Fail" tim? The largest banks and investment houses nearly brought the U.S. economy and the world economy to the brink of collapse. Why because of the deregulation of the 90's and the break down of barriers between regular commercial banking and investment banking. Banks were making loans that should have not been made, and large insurers like AIG were insuring the risky investments. All of the participants had to be bailed out by the tax payer in order to avoid an even worst disaster financially than actually unfolded. The after effects are still being felt today. Unlike organized crime where you put the dons in jail, the big bankers never even came close to being tried for their highly questionable business dealings.

I have made my position as a consumer advocate very clear during my time posting here, and I do not appreciate any inference (and I use the term loosely in this case) that I have any hatred for ANYONE in this scenario. Making a statement of possible conclusion based on what I have read is not an opportunity to discredit via an accusation such as that. I have made no direct accusation in SCs direction, nor do I intend to. I simply give food for thought based on things I read, and the only bias I show is toward the rights of consumers. Others have given their opinion about a company whose "point" of existing is to make profit; the goal of my original statement was to illuminate the fact that this "point" is all that is mentioned, and that consumers should be wary of any company that deemphasizes, or "non-emphasizes", their interests as part of their "point" of existing...

I will give only one small example to debunk this attempt at an analogy: They provide the opportunity for you, a consumer, to take a piece of plastic out of your purse or wallet, stick it in and pull it out of a fuel pump at your local gas station, and receive your fuel in a time frame that, added up with all the other similar opportunities, will provide a savings of time to hopefully do something more productive.

Analogies....... All it takes is one difference in circumstances to shoot one down.

Another one bites the dust...

In your role as a "consumer advocate," you took something I said--that the point of being in business is to make money--and turned it into something I neither said nor implied--that SC's *only* purpose is to make money. Since you used that essentially dishonest process to call SC a "leach"--I think you meant "leech"--on society, I have inferred that you are indeed motivated by anger toward SC. I am happy to be corrected on that point, but you give a fair impression of being someone who is indeed angry at SC.

That anger is misdirected. You know, I'd like to be able to get on a plane without having to disrobe and unpack my bag in the security theater. After all, I've never tried to bring a weapon on a plane. Why should I have to have my body imaged to make sure I don't have explosives in my underwear? It's not my fault. But somebody tried those things, so the regular, honest people have to suffer through additional screening. I don't like it, but I don't see another option with regard to piracy. The anti-SC crowd is happy to complain but falls silent when pressed for solutions.

As for "consumer" advocacy...we have no interest in supporting the type of "consumer" you're advocating for--the "consumer" who pays nothing for the product he takes. (Who knows? Maybe you're not doing it intentionally, but you're still doing it.) Instead, we'll stick to supporting the consumers who do buy their music. We've spent thousands of hours and tens of thousands of dollars providing low-cost or free programs that support our legitimate customers. We wish financial circumstances allowed us to do more. And we still have the goal of getting back to production, which will benefit the people who have loyally stood by us through the darkest times.