Karaoke Forums

Maybe in your area. Not where I come from. Most singers who bring disks bring originals, and the ones who bring burns usually are not bringing Sound Choice, but home-purchased brands like PartyTyme. Most of the people with Chartbuster disks (we are heavy country) bring the original or a straight copy.

I have over a thousand CDGs, and own every disk of every song I bring to a gig. It is a burn, as I make a compilation. If I didn't do that, I'd have to carry a binder with 80 disks.

Whoever claims this is a clearcut issue is wrong. The entertainment is largely of the singer themself, so the "commercial use" thing is at least quite debatable when it comes to singer-supplied disks.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

There have been singers who came up to me and bragged abouth the parties they have at home where they can sing any song they want off their 60,000 hard drive. But they never brought in a burn.

mckyj:
maybe. when i was living in Chicago 7 years ago it was rampant, dont know how it is now though. In AZ i get more with burns than originals coming in and when i say i will only play originals they look at me like i have 4 heads.

Leoppard:
i know it, the singers have bigger libraries than most hosts. in my non-scientific opinion, i would think they have stolen more than all the hosts. hell, if i don't have a song they all offer to bring me a copy.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

That's just not true! There are many Manf.s of Karaoke CDGs that are not sueing KJs for public use since . It appears the owners of 2 or 3 have Manf.s have decided to get paid twice or more for the use of products they have sold or are selling. Kinda of like Microsoft sueing for the end user moving a XP OS license from one computer to another! Sued for antitrust they were not allowed to change the terms of sale after the fact. That is exactly what SC is attempting.

1. The fact is the KJ playing the manf.s CDG helps their sale to private users but appears to not matter to SC.

2. The fact is the manf.s knew beforehand for years that KJs were purchasing these CDGs to use in public shows and did nothing. They could have posted commercial use warning on the CDGs but until recently did not! Therefore the manf.s are complicite in the KJs using the CDGs in public.

3. The fact is if SC catches a real pirate SC simply gives them the ability to just payoff SC by buying their Gems series and put them legally back into competition against always legal KJs who never ran pirated copies. By doing this a pirate can run illegally until caught then paying off SC and becoming legal. The cost of doing business!

There are so many parts of this controversy that who could help being confused? It is clear on one part however, the manf.s allowed companies like the public KJs to build their karaoke CDG inventories without warning of public infringement. Then when times get tough and after pirates have decimated the legal KJs some manf.s have let pirates off the hook by making them legal after purchasing their products without paying any civil penalties for loss.

So who lost here?

The KJ who bought legal karaoke CDGs and now is afraid to use them for fear of a lawsuit!

The KJ who had their gigs stolen by pirates running pirated (free) copies of karaoke CDGs!

The KJ who now competes with pirates, manf.s made legal by selling them licensed CDGs without prosecuting them for civil trademark infringements.

Not really. It's more like Microsoft suing someone for using a Keygen program to install & steal multiple copies of windows downloaded off the internet.

I don't think I have seen any manu trying to "get paid twice". They just want to get paid ONCE for stolen goods.

This has never happened.

It is perfectly legal and acceptable to UNINSTALL Windows XP (or any other RETAIL Microsoft operating system) from Computer A and install to Computer B. You just can't install the same licensed version to Computer A and Computer B at the same time.

The exception to this is OEM versions which are bound to the machine they were installed to. Those CANNOT be moved from one machine to another without permission from the OEM.

-Chris

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-Chris

I was gonna stay out of this but simply can not because I believe that Chip is RIGHT.

If he makes an agreement with the customer that he will play his disc and he will return said disc to customer as long as the SC logo does not show.
If the SC logo does show then Chip gets to keep the disc.
If the customer agrees to this then the deal is done.
The song is played and what happens next depends on if a SC logo shows up or not.

It's no different than any other agreement even the one that SC makes with KJ's.
SC: If our logo shows up on your computer screen and you can prove that you are 1:1 then nothing will happen (except for the fact that we have served papers on you, possibly ruined you good name and cost you Lawyer fees). If you can't prove it then break out you wallet cuz we gonna make you pay.

Down here in TX agreements are made on a handshake, no paperwork, no hassles, and dam well no Lawyers.

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I like everyone when I first meet them. If you don't like me that's not my problem it's YOURS!
A stranger is a friend you haven't met yet

I prefer cutting the disc in two and returning it to the customer. If the customer has the original, no big deal they just burn another personal use disc. By keeping the disc you become an accessory to the customer's crime of distributing copyrighted material.

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KNOW THYSELF

@ Lone Wolf - Yee Haw! (and go Cowboys!)

I am with Chip as well on this. If I stated to a singer the conditions for playing a disc as Chip laid out, I would expect the singer to accept the consequences. Of course I will allow Sound Choice discs, but I will not allow non-original discs to be played.

-Chris

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-Chris

Chris...I'll accept the Yee Haw! but the Cowboys SUCK.
(sorry never been a boy's fan). and according to new's reports they are no longer America's Team.

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I like everyone when I first meet them. If you don't like me that's not my problem it's YOURS!
A stranger is a friend you haven't met yet

I used to be a microsoft system builder and that's crap! I heard about these lawsuits monthly. It depends on the type of license and most are OEM. Here is why and the link it came from:

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/mssmallbiz/arch ... 61950.aspx

There have been several questions about the terms in the Microsoft OEM System Builder Agreement where it stated that an OEM Microsoft Desktop Operating System license could be sold with "non-peripheral" hardware and how this perceived "loophole" was being exploited by many who were listing OEM Microsoft Windows XP Pro licenses for sale with a cable or some other dimeshop "non-peripheral" hardware item. Well, we have heard your concerns and requests for simpler OEM terms which were the same for OEM Server, Desktop Operating System, and Desktop Application licenses and as of September 1st a NEW OEM System Builder Agreement went into effect. Here are some of the changes you need to know about:

In this new Agreement (which you can see at: http://oem.microsoft.com/script/content ... eID=553068), you will notice a few changes to address these actions by these people:

Under the Software Distribution section of the Agreement, you will notice it now states:

"4.1 We grant you a nonexclusive right to distribute an individual software license only with a fully assembled computer system. A "fully assembled computer system" means a computer system consisting of at least a central processing unit, a motherboard, a hard drive, a power supply, and a case."

You will notice the loophole that people have been exploiting (the former language which stated that an OEM desktop Operating System license could be sold with "non-peripheral hardware,") is no longer in place. It is now very simple and straightforward: an OEM license must be sold "only with a fully assembled computer system." Loophole closed.

Also, in section 6. Preinstallation requirement, you will notice it now states:

"When you distribute an individual software license for a desktop operating system or application software, you must preinstall it on the fully assembled computer system’s hard drive using the OEM Preinstallation Kit ("OPK") provided in this package or otherwise made available by us. This preinstallation requirement does not apply to server software."

So in addition to having to sell an OEM Desktop Operating System license with a fully assembled computer system, it must also be preinstalled on the fully assembled computer system that it is being sold with. Again, loophole closed. These same restrictions would also apply to any OEM Office license as well. OEM Office must be sold with a fully assembled computer system and must also be preinstalled on the fully assembled computer system that it is being sold with. OEM Server licenses must also be sold with a fully assembled computer system; however, the preinstallation requirement clause does not apply to OEM server licenses as you can see in section 6 above.

So yes, we have seen what people have been doing to take advantage of the System Builder Agreement to date and the Worldwide System Builder Team has made these changes specifically to address and correct these actions.

You will also notice that we have kept the advertising clause in the Agreement as well under section 15. Miscellaneous where it states:

"15.1 You must not advertise, provide a separate price for, or otherwise market or distribute individual software licenses, or any part of them, as separate items from the fully assembled computer system as applicable." As such, since OEM Software cannot be sold without a fully assembled computer system, you are not allowed to advertise any Microsoft OEM Software separately from the fully assembled computer system that it must be sold with. If you see this being done, you now know this is not allowed. As always, we encourage anyone who sees something they believe to be illegal, counterfeit, or illegitimate to let us know about these things through any of the following methods

Apples and Oranges.

1) Your post does not refer to any lawsuit by Microsoft against an end-user for "moving their OS". I challenge you to produce that.

2) System Builders and other folks did in fact leverage a loophole which, as noted in the blog post, was subsequently closed.

3) Any lawsuits that were brought forward were not against end-users but rather unscrupulous resellers that would sell a Windows license with a sound card or a hard drive or some other peripheral. This was a major issue back when Windows XP Media Center was released.

If you wish to debate this any further, I will be happy to, but let's create a different thread so as not to clutter up this one.

-Chris

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-Chris

OEM license does not allow end user to move to another computer. Period! Only a retail license does. Now you can move a dell to a dell or hp to hp because they all had alike one when sold. But not a dell to an hp or hp to a dell. You started this being off topic in this thread so why would I want to go to another!

Most discs I get from customers are original discs as well, but I do see alot of SC, CB or PHM or customs from Clark/Selectatrack, PartyTyme is pretty rare surprisingly with the readily availableness of them to typical home users.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

we had a patch of burns.....explained our policy......back to all originals again no problem playing any original manufactures discs.....more customers showing up at our shows and bringing their disc wallets with them (often surprised we have that disc to).

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

Yes. Now this is where the really nasty work from MS then started.
At first their labels were plastic covered and worked great on laptops.
Now they do not plastic cover them and the ink rubs off.

So... If your system crashes through a virus or whatever, you can not even read the license to re install windows which they never gave you a disk to re install it with in the first place.

Does anyone see something nasty here?

I agree. But when I noticed the "destructible" labels, I covered them with a piece of crystal-clear shipping tape. After writing it down on the label of the emergency restoration disc....

I found out though, that even when the drive goes, you can put in your restoration disc and it will load everything back up like it was when you made it -- so here's a tip:

BEFORE making disc (which you can only do ONE time only),

#1. Get rid of the trash you don't want on your new computer. In my case, it was all the "freebie add-ons" that clutter it up like AOL, games, etc....

#2. Do load all the software you want to use on it like drawing programs, office, etc....

#3. Once you have it all set up, make the restore disc. Then if you have to use it, it will put it all in for you in one fell swoop....

Works really nice....

From first hand experience you are the first person I know of to ever do that.
"emergency restoration disc...."
Most actually have a restoration partition on the hard disk.
Then I only get to see the ones that don't work.
I still think it was a cheap shot by microsoft.

I seriously doubt Microsoft intentionally made a decision to use a destructable labels for any nefarious purposes.

Also - ***THE OEM*** makes the decision on whether or not to include include a Windows Disk. ***Not Microsoft.***

I just looked at the bottom of my Lenovo T61p which is my everyday use laptop for work. It has crossed the country with me for the last 5 years and seen more rough and tumble use than any karaoke laptop will normally see in a 5 year period. I can clearly read the CD Key (which I recorded and stored the day I received the laptop) though the portion telling me what OS it goes to is unreadable.

Regardless, writing down the necessary information and storing it in a safe place is something that practically every software company has told practically every end-user to do forever. People still don't do it. They can't blame their inaction on anyone but themselves.

-Chris

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-Chris