Karaoke Forums

I don't know what was actually reported by the investigator nor do I think the owner or the kj would have actually known when the investigator would have come in. I was never in that bar until I was contacted later on after Jim retired from that venue and Hershel call me to talk to him about possibly doing running the karaoke there. We did hava a nice chat and as far as I could tell he had no problem with SC. Case closed, let it lay. The space the kj worked in as small and closed in and anyone would hav had a hard time seeing anything being done behind the scenes if someone (investigator) wanted to take a peek. The investigator screwed up and everyone knows that here and with SC. It was a learning thing according to SC. Note: Jim did handle disc and also had a cav player and a multi disc player also. The fact that the investigator didn't see him holding a disc is moot now. Jim still has a good reputation and the only people that have issues are the ones that don't count in that CLOSED case. Let it go!

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Thanks rum. I understand now that Jim just had a CAVS cdg player that he used to play discs on & not necessarily a JB-199 Jukebox style CAVS machine.

Sounds like the investigator was mistaken, but however, did not lie.

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"Just Say NO, To Justin Bieber & His Beatle Haircut"

A CAVS unit can be used just like a computer if they have all the orignal discs. However, MANY i've seen sold in the past were already preloaded - not necessarily with SC (although did see some on ebay years ago), but with many defunct brands.

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It might appear that they are trying to level the playing field, but when you see a legal host the kjathena that has invested by her own admission 100,000's of dollars in a business. Then you look at the pirate paying 3780.00 to 7500.00 to get SC off their back, cost wise I can see the new legal host will still be able to under cut, the established legal host. Since their overhead at least for library will still be cheaper, by a considerable amount.

And exactly how are they "damaging" you? I know, you'll explain it away by saying "They have less invested and can undercut a legit host"... Fine, but even if a pirate pays suddenly an additional $7,500 on a financed payout -even at 10% interest, it's still how much in the grand scheme of things?

Let's amortize this over 2 years:

Principal borrowed: $7,500.00
Regular Payment amount: $346.08
Final Balloon Payment: $0.12
Interest-only payment: $62.50
Total Repaid: $8,306.04
Total Interest Paid: $806.04
Annual Payments: 12
Total Payments: 25 (2.08 years)
Annual interest rate: 10.00%

If a pirate is only doing Friday and Saturday each week and nothing else, that's 8 nights a month at $100 night and the payment consists of barley over 3 of those 8 nights and still making $454.00/month. Add one extra weekday night -where they now go after your gig for $100/night because they are "certified" now too - and the payment is taken care of and their monthly income goes back up to $846.00

They can make the payment for an additional 6 or so hours a week and yes, they are still competing with you.... it's a helluva deal and makes "playing fair" a lot easier to swallow doesn't it? If I remember correctly, wasn't your library "cash up front?"

How exactly again is this "helping the legit host?" It isn't. It's simply making it more affordable for (and now "certified legal") pirate to continue to compete with you.... even at $100 a night.

The pirate that does this - especially in these economic times - as their only source of income isn't about to pack up and just go away, they need the money to survive so going after your gigs at a lower rate than you charge has now an even greater incentive.

SC has no incentive to make this "punishment" anymore than what's affordable otherwise, they'll simply sue a bunch of people that will disappear or file bankruptcy and they'll get no return on their investment - nothing. That would be cutting their nose off to spite their face. Even though it would be great for you wouldn't it? Since the pirate would be now gone off your playing field entirely.

Of course at the end of the day, you will now end up with a "certified fair-player" that:
(1) still has a lower cost for their library,
(2) still has the ability to uncut you and most importantly,
(3) now has the incentive to do so.

You'd best prepare for the oncoming new pricing round.

In the meantime, SC has an additional $8,300.00 and lots of cheerleaders helping them find new "future customers" while they claim they're "helping YOU."

It's not difficult math.

Couldn't have said it better myself. The manus are only creating the illusion of helping the legal host, for those who want to buy into that fairytale. Then again all life is perception, if it makes you feel better, why should put a hole in your balloon.

Yeah Lone Ranger... I'm delusional, living in a fantasy world. You think you've got what it takes to snap me back to reality? Your DK based show would not survive in my market. My target market consists of fresh-out-of-college 20 somethings to retired ski instructors and every sort of tourist/visitor imaginable from around the US and the world. I have the full 1-99 and the complete 115 disc "Millenium" series... 3472 tracks (less than 5% of my total). The music is about 20 years old. They are quality tracks, but they wouldn't support a single show of mine all by themselves.

You obviously haven't figured out that if SC is still around 2 years after the run of 750, perhaps they've planned and prepared for the long haul. You are apparently also unaware of the other revenue streams that the company has in place.

Your conjecture as to whether or not SC has any plans to begin producing karaoke CD+G's again is purely that... you are making it up without any solid information to go on. You listen to the detractors and take what is spewed to be fact. It simply is not.

When Kurt Slep attended my show last March, part of our discussion actually included the issue of returning to karaoke production. They DO have a warehouse full of CD+G's that you can purchase directly through them and they'll send you a catalog if you request one. They do have a very large stock of GEM series product and they've sold quite a few of them. They still run sound studios in Charlotte and collaborate with other media producers and their projects. Do a little research or pick up the phone... you would be doing yourself a favor and you'd come across much less like a parrot that just repeats whatever it hears.

c. staley... that is not math. It isn't even difficult addition an subtraction. Do you know what I paid for my GEM series? Do you know what I've paid for 800+ SC CDG's? Do you know what my going price is DIRECT from SC? Do you know what I paid per disc for the last 120 Power Picks Series discs I picked up? How about per track?

Are you suggesting that by making the pirates pay up and "go legit" that they are harming my business?

I don't understand that as they are already there, harming legit operators by stealing and undercutting. If they settle and pay up, they are no longer stealing and as far as undercutting goes... bring it on. I believe in principle and demonstrating integrity right up front for my business. I will not conduct business with anyone who plays games with my rate. I'm confident that I offer a superior service and though I've had the occasional skirmish with HD pirates and undercutters, I'm not particularly worried.

Sound Choice did not create these jerks.

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Never the same show twice!

With all due respect, you might have missed the point. The point I'm making here is that the price you pay for music, whether it's disc or Gem, is no longer a factor in this equation at all.


Sort of. What I am saying is that making pirates pay up is not "helping YOU" at all. It only benefits SC and opens the door to these same slugs going directly after your gigs. There will be no "certified advantage" because that part of the playing field will certainly be level now won't it? Yep. And what these people pay for in "penalties" will not be enough to dissuade them from undercutting -or at the very least attempting to undercut- you again.

And bring it on they most certainly will, because there will be no reason for them to lurk in the shadows or live off the fringes. They will be just as "certified" as you are.


Then kudos to you! Especially now since what you're saying is that it's your entertainment value they can't touch... and has nothing really to do with the "library." (What is that now? Two beers I owe you?)


That's right. But in the same breath, don't be misled into thinking that Sound Choice wants to rid the world of them for your benefit either because it really has nothing to do helping you.

It is quite plain to me that we have nothing to worry about as going after the same target market. To each his own I always say, it is nice to know that I won't be taking any of your business from you. So you can focus all your attention to the pirates. After all I never claimed to be a professional the way you define professional, and I am very satisfied with the share of the market I have. Your crowd would not interest me, and I would have very little in common with them. That is also why I don't have to bend my knee to Sound Choice or any other manu. When are you due to pay for your yearly checkup by the way?

Excellent point, Lonman. Again, just HAVING a CAVS onsite means absolutely nothing.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Nothing to worry about. True.

You won't be taking any business away from me. Also true. Strange that you've only reached this conclusion now. My "crowd" is, as I've explained, a broad cross-section of the entire country with a liberal sprinkling of international visitors. You'd probably have more in common with them than you think.

What exactly do you mean by "bend my knee"? There is a vast difference between what I think you mean: to submit, and what I believe it is that I am doing. I believe that I am cooperating. The net result of that cooperation is that I am free to run my business and use SC's (and CB's) product without fear of reprisal. I don't have any "dead" assets that cost me $$ and are not making me $$.

In additional to that fact, there is the little detail of what you are calling a yearly check up. First, the licensing agreement for the GEM series stipulates 5 years... and then renewal for a 3 year term thereafter. How do you get yearly from that? Second... I presented my discs for audit in November of 2010. At that time, there was no stipulation as to any future audits. A year has not passed (check your calendar for proof). I will discuss this matter directly with the mgmt of SC as I have added dozens of SC CD+G's to my collection over the last year. I haven't discussed what it would take to renew the agreement, but as you've read in another thread, I've suggested a form of self-registration for original mfr's CD+G product that would be free of charge. If you haven't died by then, I'll let you know what we work out.

You see, I don't just take what I "hear" at face value. In military terms, I perform "reconnaissance". I communicate, I'm pro-active and assertive. I deal direct. I dig up the facts and I consider ALL opinions and I know the difference. To be very clear, I focus very little on the pirates. Instead, I focus on the productive side of the industry, the legit host/KJ's who are trying to reclaim karaoke entertainment.

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Never the same show twice!

Having owned a CAVS CD+G/SCDG/MP3+G player with USB capabilities, I could see how using that machine, even if only to play MP3 Music tracks, during a show, would present the CAVS logo whenever the machine was paused or idle. If this occurred before or after a CD+G track was queued or played, it may very well appear that the CAVS machine is the source of either or both media.

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Never the same show twice!

1) Really? I my singers range from 21 to 85, and I'm doin' fine, thanks.

First, check the DK set. The music isn't 20 years old, number one. Two, though no longer completely current, neither is SC, whose REAL production of new tracks probably ended around 2007, that little "keep my hand in" 750 pc. run aside. In other words, SC is probably 4-5 YEARS behind your "fresh out of college 20 somethings" in music.

Since Spotlightjr never answered, I'll ask YOU: Since Sound Choice is no longer current what other brands do you use for current music?

Stellar, while quick to put out, is still pretty much generic tracks and nothing to write home about. Just singable.

Chartbuster, while probably the best producer of [i]country tracks ( even I agree), has never been considered all that in other genres.

SO, whose tracks are YOU using to keep current?

2) Yup, SC is still a business entity even after their tiny 750pc run, but of absolutely no importance or standing in the business of karaoke music production.

Will they ever produce NEW tracks again? Maybe for an Australian based download site, but I truly doubt they will ever again be a name in U.S. based licensed production again.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Chip, but that is $350 out of their pockets, which they most likely already spend, so they will have to recoup it, if possible. But then some people think it's a free ride.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

They aren't getting much of a discount at all really. Prices fall. Say they get the full GEM set, 6000 songs, that equates to 400 15 song discs. Spotlight discs sell new for about $18 at most retailers. 400 x $18 = $7200, so if the pirate is paying $7500 for the full GEM set (which according to Harrington they are if I recall correctly), they are actually paying more per song in reality than what can be purchased through a retail store. I have thousands of dollars invested into my library as well, but I was also buying discs when they were $40 each in '92 and $125-150 for 1 laserdisc - these eventually fell to $40-75 per disc. I've seen cdg's as low as $14 each new if I shop wise for the same discs. I cannot get mad at falling prices over the years. If it brings a pirate to a level of fair competition, then i'm all for it! I can compete with that. If it drives them out of business - great. In the few lawsuits around here, I have already seen some customer increase from a standpoint that some companies quit using SC so people are looking at other clubs to sing their songs. Maybe I will finally be able to put together my second rig again which I had to sell years ago directly due to pirates & not being able to get a fair price to hire it.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Why is this so hard to digest? The pirate settles with SC and buy the gem series. They also have all illegal music removed from their hard drive. Instead of 100000 tracks in their library they now have 4800. If they breach that agreement with SC and go back to their pirate ways they lose the gem series and are sued again

In my mind that totally levels the playing field. They have, in essence, set up their karaoke legit and are starting from scratch. To have any longevity in the karaoke business they will have to reinvest in other manus, etc. to please the public. That's called legal karaoke in my book and it's all good.

FTR, I have many other manus besides SC in my library and am currently in the process of getting certified with 2 other manus.

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Sound Choice and Chartbuster Certified

Actually CB has risen quality tremendously in the last few years in their pop/rock genres. I have been getting their monthly releases for nearly 3 years now, and except for the off time swipes (which can be adjusted on the fly on most hosting programs to fix it) the music quality is actually much better than their rock/pop of even 5 years ago and before.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Sounds like the kind singers in your area of Washington State appreciate a good Sound Choice rendition!

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"Just Say NO, To Justin Bieber & His Beatle Haircut"

Sound Choice/Chartbuster is very popular here with the singers - the lesser brands are typically frowned upon by many.
Despite what many kj's here want to think, many singers do know how to differentiate between brands.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!