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jclaydon
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 Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:26 pm |
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that's the difference between US and UK manufacturers. In the UK once a karaoke track is paid for and made, that company owns the master rights to it.. lock stock and barrel.. They can grant whatever rights they wish including world wide usage.
The US karaoke makers cannot do this, because they only own the rights to the MUSIC they make, which is stupid but that's the way it is.
-James
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JoeChartreuse
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Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:56 pm |
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Wall Of Sound wrote: [The manufacturer can shift their content into any form they want. It could be on a vinyl disc, or magnetic tape if they want.. Where the heck did you come up with this? Karaoke producers are limited in the same way the KJ is. If they want to media shift music that they don't OWN, they must first get the permission of the OWNERS.
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JoeChartreuse
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:00 am |
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jclaydon wrote: Wall Of Sound wrote: jclaydon wrote:
Now whether Sundown tracks would be legal to use would depend solely on wether Tricerasoft has the right to sell these tracks for KJ USE as they claim
-james
The email I received from Sundown states that Tricerisoft does have that right. That is not what I am refering to. Tricerasoft claims that they have a separate licence from the copyright owners that allows them to sell digital downloads for KJ USE *in other words it incudes all the rights needed for the music AND the lyrics. CLAIMING and HAVING are two different things. If they have a license that they can legally confer giving U.S. based KJs specific permission to use their tracks as a basis of a U.S. based show, I can't find anyone who can supply a lnk to a copy of it, and they sure aren't downloading it with their tracks ( and they would have to include documentation with and for each individual track).
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JoeChartreuse
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:05 am |
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Wall Of Sound wrote: jclaydon wrote: Wall Of Sound wrote: jclaydon wrote:
Now whether Sundown tracks would be legal to use would depend solely on wether Tricerasoft has the right to sell these tracks for KJ USE as they claim
-james
The email I received from Sundown states that Tricerisoft does have that right. the legallity of using their tracks would fall to local copyright law *there is none* OR a pre-existing contract *which they claim to have* -James I get it. The KJ would only have to worry about the songwriter/publishers coming after them which doesn't seem to be happening. If they were after us, myself as well as anyone else using SuperCore or RadioStarz, whether it be on disc or mediashifted, would be getting notified. Exactly- and you're right, the owners don't seem to care AT THE MOMENT. But all are still liable if they do. The only difference is that a disc based host would only be hit with a cease and desist, with the rest of the liability landing on the karaoke producers. Other hosts, ESPECIALLY download hosts, would bear full financial liability.
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JoeChartreuse
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:10 am |
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Wall Of Sound wrote: JoeChartreuse wrote: It's about USAGE, not the act of downloading. Well I agree. So using tracks from a SuperCore disc, in a commercial show, can get a KJ in trouble with the songwriter/publisher. Nope. As you know by now, using tracks from a mfrs. original disc, again and ad nauseum, keeps the KJ safe from anything except a Cease and Desist. Now, if a KJ downloaded SuperCore or Sound Choice tracks, for instance, it would be a different story...
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Wall Of Sound
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:33 am |
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I'll let Frank respond to Joe....
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Paradigm Karaoke
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:49 am |
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The only difference is that a disc based host would only be hit with a cease and desist, with the rest of the liability landing on the karaoke producers. Other hosts, ESPECIALLY download hosts, would bear full financial liability.[/quote]
and where is the link to show that a download is no longer the manus liability?
you keep saying that my Eagles song on the sunfly disc is ok to use but my Eagles song downloaded direct from sunfly is not their problem. where did you get this info?
Lets add to the fact that 2 Download sites, Marketed for Pro's, selling downloads authorized by the respective manus that own their recordings (thats why i can get Desperado from Clint Black, He re-recorded it and owns that recording and can give license to have it made karaoke over-riding Don Henley), are sponsors of this very site.
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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens
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c. staley
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:11 am |
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Wall Of Sound wrote: The manufacturer can shift their content into any form they want. It could be on a vinyl disc, or magnetic tape if they want. Surely all media has been shifted from one form to another throughout history by the rights holder. From film negative, to film print, to video tape, to laser disc, to DVD, & now to whatever you get downloaded from NetFlix. My bull$hit detector just went off..... big time. I'd suggest Wall, that you ask your buddies to please send you a copy of a real license from a writer or publisher. You might find that the final "form" is spelled out as "x number of compact discs, downloads, etc..." Wall Of Sound wrote: It appears that the content on SBI & KaraokeDownloads.ca most likely have been delivered in the format for download from the manu themselves. At least that appears to be the case with New Zealand's Sundown Karaoke as stated in the link I provided in the above post. Way to go... use examples from companies abroad or companies that claim they license abroad.... How relevant....
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Wall Of Sound
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:55 am |
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c. staley wrote: Wall Of Sound wrote: The manufacturer can shift their content into any form they want. It could be on a vinyl disc, or magnetic tape if they want. Surely all media has been shifted from one form to another throughout history by the rights holder. From film negative, to film print, to video tape, to laser disc, to DVD, & now to whatever you get downloaded from NetFlix. My bull$hit detector just went off..... big time. I'd suggest Wall, that you ask your buddies to please send you a copy of a real license from a writer or publisher. You might find that the final "form" is spelled out as "x number of compact discs, downloads, etc..." Sorry, I failed to mention, "As long as they have acquired the proper format license to do so" ~ I want to press 10,000 Vinyl copies, 10,000 CD copies, & 10,000 mp3's at iTunes of my cover of "Dumb All Over" by Frank Zappa ~ Here Mr. Fox, my payment for three Mechanics licenses. Thank you. Happy now?
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Wall Of Sound
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:04 am |
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JoeChartreuse wrote: The only difference is that a disc based host would only be hit with a cease and desist, with the rest of the liability landing on the karaoke producers. Other hosts, ESPECIALLY download hosts, would bear full financial liability. Paradigm Karaoke wrote: and where is the link to show that a download is no longer the manus liability?
you keep saying that my Eagles song on the sunfly disc is ok to use but my Eagles song downloaded direct from sunfly is not their problem. where did you get this info?
Lets add to the fact that 2 Download sites, Marketed for Pro's, selling downloads authorized by the respective manus that own their recordings (thats why i can get Desperado from Clint Black, He re-recorded it and owns that recording and can give license to have it made karaoke over-riding Don Henley), are sponsors of this very site. Quite the double standard Joe has! Who knows where he gets this stuff?
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Wall Of Sound
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:08 am |
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The cover song?
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Paradigm Karaoke
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:00 am |
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Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:24 pm
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gotta love zappa.....now where did i put my zircon encrusted tweasers?
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JoeChartreuse
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:45 pm |
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I already answered and gave the differences several times in this thread and others, and explained why downloads are not originals at least as many times, with as much clarity as humanly possible. If you don't get it, you don't get it. If you wish to ignore, please do. Not my problem- that's the business.
I have also discussed how the manufacturers feel about having to own - in their own words- " Original Fixed Media" several times. I have noted the word FIXED in that phrase.
What I'm seeing is WOS skipping what he can't explain, and maybe throwing Paradigm - normally a sensible guy- off with it.
Again, If you don't get it, you don't get it. If you wish to ignore it, please do. Not my problem- that's the business.
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" Disc based and loving it..."
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Wall Of Sound
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:25 pm |
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JoeChartreuse wrote: I already answered and gave the differences several times in this thread and others, and explained why downloads are not originals at least as many times, with as much clarity as humanly possible. If you don't get it, you don't get it. If you wish to ignore, please do. Not my problem- that's the business.
I have also discussed how the manufacturers feel about having to own - in their own words- " Original Fixed Media" several times. I have noted the word FIXED in that phrase.
What I'm seeing is WOS skipping what he can't explain, and maybe throwing Paradigm - normally a sensible guy- off with it.
Again, If you don't get it, you don't get it. If you wish to ignore it, please do. Not my problem- that's the business. And all this from a guy who uses unlicensed SuperCore CDG discs at his show.
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c. staley
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:22 pm |
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Wall Of Sound wrote: And all this from a guy who uses unlicensed SuperCore CDG discs at his show. And your second system is still gathering dust?.... That certification has really ramped up your business I see...
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Wall Of Sound
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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 1:08 am |
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c. staley wrote: Wall Of Sound wrote: And all this from a guy who uses unlicensed SuperCore CDG discs at his show. And your second system is still gathering dust?.... That certification has really ramped up your business I see... If you only knew! 
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Lonman
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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 1:23 am |
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JoeChartreuse wrote: using tracks from a mfrs. original disc, again and ad nauseum, keeps the KJ safe from anything except a Cease and Desist. Has a cease & desist ever happened to a kj that has original discs - whether it be something that may have or not been licensed? I don't recall one to date? _________________ LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!
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c. staley
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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 3:40 am |
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Lonman wrote: JoeChartreuse wrote: using tracks from a mfrs. original disc, again and ad nauseum, keeps the KJ safe from anything except a Cease and Desist. Has a cease & desist ever happened to a kj that has original discs - whether it be something that may have or not been licensed? I don't recall one to date? Yes, it has happened. Remember K.A.P.A? Joseph Senter (the first incarnation of a "Wall Of Sound type person") used to throw cease 'n desist notices about in clubs to owners and patrons alike..... He did that here in Michigan until the F.B.I. got on KAPA about this behavior.
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Wall Of Sound
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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:49 pm |
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"Since investigators for Sound Choice discovered a growing level of Sunfly Karaoke, Zoom Entertainment and Mr. Entertainer songs being played, they are in discussions with these UK companies to represent their Intellectual Property interests in the U.S., with possible lawsuits for these brands in the future."From the Northwest Karaoke Guide featuring Sound Choice's press release about the Washington State lawsuits on page 13.http://www.themedallion.net/publicftp/2 ... 207-11.pdf
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c. staley
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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:08 pm |
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Wall Of Sound wrote: "Since investigators for Sound Choice discovered a growing level of Sunfly Karaoke, Zoom Entertainment and Mr. Entertainer songs being played, they are in discussions with these UK companies to represent their Intellectual Property interests in the U.S., with possible lawsuits for these brands in the future."From the Northwest Karaoke Guide featuring Sound Choice's press release about the Washington State lawsuits on page 13.http://www.themedallion.net/publicftp/2 ... 207-11.pdf Speculation and hearsay...
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