Karaoke Forums

boy has this discussion gotten overheated and smelly........it's really very simple people find out about the product (CB program).....decide if you wish to purchase the product or not. Nobody is saying you must buy into the program...

And if you stop and think about it for just a couple of minutes let's say you did request a audit (pre-lawsuit). How much do you think it would cost in airfare/hotel/rental car/meals alone to get an auditor to come to you ? Some may come up with a lower cost...many with a higher amount.

We have not gathered enough info yet to decide if we will be continuing with the program next year...with 3 systems 600.00 seems to be high for some advertising but no-one yet knows what WILL or WILL NOT include. Same with the GEM series or the new CB Media Pro cards...we love the products and think they are a wonderful idea for most creating a new system but for US the gain is not worth the cost purely because we have so many discs the set would only provide around 678 unique songs.

_______Getting off my soapbox__________

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

For Chartbuster's Skype audit, let me go out on a limb here, and guess ZERO.

Hopefully, I'll see the Lawyer at my Tuesday show.

I'll approach her with a more serious attitude and take notes.

I'll ask about the Trademark issue as it pertains to either separate from the IP or included with the IP.

I'll get all pertinent URLs to give her for research.

I'll let you know more on what I find, Wednesday.

Singyoassoff,
I was not aware that any manu was still offering a skype audit . To the best of my understanding that method was torn apart back when we did ours (thats why went attended the meeting and had a disc by disc audit done at the SC meeting), and there are too many ways to "beat" a skype audit for those who have no sense of right and wrong.

As you have stated you volenteered for a SC audit (sorry date has still not been reset)....in my personal opinion that makes you o.k. as I doubt a pirate would be as willing.

would you be willing to take your discs to CB to be auditted ? just a question not trying to upset anyone. That is what we did and the trip cost us about what CB would want for us to pay per year?
as I have said I dont know enough about the program to decide if we will renew next year....if the benefits out weigh the cost we will....if not we wont.

so everyone you dont have to answer here...or even out loud but add up the costs in my last post just to get someone to your location....are you still enraged after that ? if so ask yourself if the rage is justifyed ?

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

Received from Chartbuster 4/1/11


Chartbuster Karaoke Remote Auditing

Welcome to the Chartbuster Karaoke Remote Audit process. We use this system to verify the libraries of each venue and/or karaoke show host, to ascertain if the individual has a physical disc that corresponds to each song in their show library.

The Audit will be conducted at a prearranged time. You will be asked to show each physical disc that you own that contains a Chartbuster Karaoke song in your library. While the process can be lengthy for large libraries. When it is over you will be presented a certificate that you can display declaring that you have completed the Audit process and that your library has been checked and verified by Chartbuster Karaoke.

You will need:
1. A computer with a web camera: This is so you can complete the Audit process without costly travel. Video is required.
2. A Skype account: This allows you to connect with video to our Auditor and saves on long-distance charges.
3. Your song books: You will need to have it present during the Audit, even if you don’t normally use a printed paper songbook.
4. Your disc collection: Please have every one of your discs present and ready for presentation during the Audit process.
5. A strong mobile light source: This will help us during the disc identification process.
6. A soldering iron for marking your discs: This will be shipped to you in a self-return package from Chartbuster Karaoke prior to your audit date. You will be responsible for returning it.

Before the Audit
In order to keep the Audit process flowing at a smooth pace, there are several tasks you must accomplish before the audit date. Here is a handy checklist.

ü Send your complete song list to us: Send the electronic version of your songbook – in spreadsheet form – directly to us prior to the audit. The correct email address is priffle@bigmama.tv.
ü Get a Skype account: If you don’t already have a Skype account, download and install the Skype software from http://www.skype.com, and establish an account with the Skype system. Test your connection in advance of the Audit call, to make certain your webcam and connection are working properly and to avoid delays in the Audit process.
ü Gather all of your discs at the computer you will be conducting the Skype call from.
ü Payment for your audit is due before your audit is scheduled. You may remit the fee via Paypal, Visa or Mastercard. Log onto or create an account at http://www.chartbusterkaraoke.com and follow the link to KJ World, then click on “Become a Certified KJ” to begin the application process and submit your fee.

Day of the Audit
At the appointed time for your Audit, place a video call through Skype to “paula.riffle”. The Auditor will establish that you have your materials ready, and begin the Audit process at that time. Please allow sufficient time for the Audit – extensive libraries will take longer to verify.

A Special Note on Super CD+Gs
There are a large number of counterfeit copies of the Essential 450 Volumes 1-6 on the market – these are illegal, though they may appear to be legitimate. For the purposes of auditing your system, any Super CD+Gs you may have in your library will only be verified if you can show a proof of purchase before January 2007. If you have purchased any of these discs from someone you believe to be a reputable dealer, we strongly encourage you to seek a refund.



I still stand by my ZERO.


Chartbuster has stated those who have format shifted are subject to suit unless they submit to an audit. (or some such words to that effect.) Now they wish to charge $200 per year per system for said audit.


As I have said before, if the tactic is to send "intent to sue" letters and then allow free audits to those who answer the letters, I have no problem.

If they will allow free audits to those, like me, who couldn't possibly care less about the certificate and the website advertising, but just want to keep their names off the lawsuits, sign me up.

If they intend to file suit and ask questions later if you don't pay the $200 per year, I think that equates to extortion. That would flat out pi$$ me off. Call it rage if you like.

And I am sick of all the people opining that a 1=1 format shift is definitely illegal. I am willing to pay $500 towards the 5k the aforementioned attorney has offered to charge in order to get a definitive answer from a court once and for all.

Athena, my "rage" is not directed at you in any way. However I do believe that those of you who made the trip were given quite the opportunity to recoup your expenses, and then some. Some once-in-a-lifetime disc deals were offered if I recall correctly.

So would I be willing to take my discs to Chartbuster? If I got the same deal you did, what was it, a few bucks per disc, no limit to quantity? Absolutely!

And then what? Drive to MA for another audit with PHM? And hit Pocketsongs on the way. And then a trip to the U.K. for Zoom? and so on and so on.

And yes, SC gave them a deal of $3 per disc, as many as they could purchase....


No, it hasn't. It just doesn't agree with SC or CB or cheerleaders. I'm sure the idea of someone suing SC is smelly to you...



However, it is IMPLIED that if you don't there could be a lawsuit in your future.... (Extortion)



This is outright stupid... Why would anyone WANT to purchase a product in Florida and THEN want to drive to Tennessee and spend HUNDREDS of dollars for nothing to make sure they didn't get sued for purchasing it in the first place? You can save hundreds if you just don't buy them in the first place.



"Seems to be high?" C'mon... you should be making zillions of dollars with SC shutting down all the piracy in your area - this cost and time should be a walk in the park with all that higher-pay jobs you should be swimming in from being "certified" remember?

Oh gee, I forgot; You had your skype audit a couple years ago after having been named in a lawsuit for trademark infringement and are STILL having pirate trouble? How can that happen? That's right, SC doesn't want to put anyone out of business, as a matter of fact, they want to turn "pirates into customers."

It's simply their way of fighting piracy and making life better for YOU!

Hook, line and sinker Athena and yet you refuse to see that they haven't done anything other than sell their product with your help.

Singyoassoff....I stand corrected, I was not aware of the procedures you have provided.
As far as the deal of a lifetime disc's offered at the meeting....We did not attend with the intention of buying discs but that WAS a great deal....however I must offer some clarification...the Discs were SC overstocks or end of runs that would have normally been set to a wholesaler.....not ANY SC disc. There were a limited number of discs available. Most people did not buy many discs.

I wish I had the same chance with CB We could split the gas......sigh...I can dream, can't I ?

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

Chip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnhF1QAEZjU


HEY EVERYBODY REMEMBER>>>>>DON'T FEED THE TROLLS<<<<<<<<<


wow I figured out the user control panel friends and foes section....this board just got so much nicer of a place to visit

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

Not trolling anything here Athena.... you're the one talking in circles.

You still have a piracy problem don't you?
Realistically, that "certification" hasn't helped you at all has it?
How long has it been? 2 years?

You see, this is a typical "cheerleader" tactic:
You have no valid argument so you simply start personally attacking the poster with your childish YouTube links.

That speaks volumes. Just as the silence of your precious manufacturers speaks volumes - I don't see them here defending you.... do you? Wonder why?

I'd be willing to bet GM would be pretty pissed off when you sent the original truck to the wreckers when it was worn out and then started driving the "as new" duplicate! Gosh, I dare say that they'd be closing down their assembly plants pretty soon due to nobody having to replace their old dilapidated vehicles.

Good, then perhaps she will enlighten you as to why I was while reading your diatribe!

This part just about made me split my sides:

How did GM using the Baretta name create any real measurable damages to Baretta?

Sure they settled for $500,000 plus fees, but would they have done this if they thought they could have gotten away with it?

_________________
My statements, opinions and conclusions are based on my own personal experiences, observations, research and/or just my own $.02. I'm not a "cheerleader", but that doesn't make me a Pirate.

Comparing physical products to IP is an exercise in futility. Creating an exact copy is not the issue.

IMHO The true issue at hand here is format and/or media shifting.

Shifting cd+g to mp3+g involves BOTH a media shift (from the cd to the HDD), and a format shift (compression to mp3+g).

Shifting cd+g to wav+g arguably involves only a media shift, as wav+g is bit-by-bit accurate to the cd audio. (That is why I have re-ripped my CB & SC to wav+g, not only does it sound better, but it IMHO possibly opens me up to less liability.)

SC & CB BOTH now sell compressed product now made for computer use, so it would be difficult to argue that format shifting through compression (if done correctly) itself causes SC or CB "damages."

SC & (and I think CB) BOTH allow backup of media as long as the original is archived. When one rips a cd+g to mp3+g in a 1-1 transfer, the original is archived. Again, no damages here.

IMHO The only argument SC or CB has that a true 1-1 format/media shift causes damages is that those of us who have done so will not re-purchase songs we already own in the new format. That is the issue. Because without damages, the suit falls flat on it's face.

I have previously posted case law from the US Supreme Court that I believe supports my position.

I am NOT an IP attorney, and this is NOT legal advice.

Last time I bought a CDG, it looked pretty physical to me.

_________________
You can be strange but not a stranger

Are you buying the CD for the plastic and the pretty paint?

The CD is merely the "container" for the Intellectual Property.

Well Yes, I would say you hit the nail right on the head!

I "think" that as an attorney you should be able to read the laws and understand at least some of what they are saying, so I will take what you say at face value. You posted case law that you think supports your position, but if I remember correctly didn't it have to do with fair use? Could you repost it here so we can get a refresher on what you are refering too?

Finally you hit it exactly right! Purely by accident I am sure.


And the Intellectual Property actually belongs to the copyright and trademark holders and the law states that they and they alone have the power to authorize copies of that product!

If the cd is just the container why can't you take the purchased items out of the container and use how you want?

_________________
My statements, opinions and conclusions are based on my own personal experiences, observations, research and/or just my own $.02. I'm not a "cheerleader", but that doesn't make me a Pirate.

No one says you can't, you take that product out of the container and use it everytime you put it in a player. What you can't do is make a copy of the product without permission.

When you put that file onto a computer did you take it out of the container? If so then it would no longer be on the physical disc, if it is still on the physical disc then you didn't take it out of the container you made a copy of it. If it is still on the physical disc and also on your computer and the fact is you made a copy of it, then that is where the required permission comes in.

The manus SC, CB, PHM, etc. pay the intellectual property owners of the songs and lyrics to make "copies" of those songs and put them onto a CDG, correct?

By the same token would not the manus also be justified in charging us a nominal fee to make copies of their product to use in a format different from what they delivered it in as well?