Karaoke Forums

Timerberlea: Funny one!! We like the song, but the patrons both kill it and repeat the song often. Mostly when I camp in the summer. I think the reason is that amateur's like me find standard karaoke hard to follow. Few times one see's "dots" to let a person know when to about to start a sentence.
Or whether to sing higher or lower. On top of that, the music arrangement might be off slightly to the normal song. Almost like to embarrass us singing it. Therefore, few people bother to sing.

The real mfg of the songs are not creative in helping the singer. Just collecting their money and letting those big 3 organizations strong arm the nation for them. No wonder karaoke singing is down. The high fees and per song is killing the industry. Soon the goons will have few people to collect from.

I remember a defunct bar in my camping places. Had about 30 patrons. Maybe 6 singers. Fellow played about 25 songs in 3 hours. So by calcs that I read here, the Host owed at 3 cents per song, 75 cents to the big 3 firms. 75 cents. and the bar owner owed $150 for the event twice a month. Times 3 per Lon. So $450 a month. Roughly. Plus paid the Host something for his 2 visits. Let's say $425 total.

Boy, we must have had to drink alot to justify the 2 nights a month. For just 6 hours of entertainment done by amateurs who are usually drunk to sing.

Alas. The bar is now gone. Can't attract new people at those rates. I bet the bar owner can thank the Big 3 firms somewhat. Without karaoke, he only had 5 people per night sitting on the stools.

So no more fees to the Big 3 by this bar guy. He's gone. Everyone lost out. The artist too who lost out on $1.50 for the 2 gigs plus a portion of the $450. Assuming the Big 3 pass it on.

Would love to audit the books of those Big 3. I'm a cost accountant and know how. Would like to see the allocations. One firm claims just 11% is for their operating expenses.

So we should do an audit of them. Have them tell me if the Burl Ives "have a Jolly Holly Christmas" guy's descendants collect something. (back to how many years this baloney goes on. I bet the old Beethoven Family is first in line at the Big 3 payout line.)

I promised myself to not write again. But one last thought.
What if Hosts did the following. Not call the event Karaoke. Call it "Learn to Sing".
At the bar as usual. And not show the lyrics on the TV screens. but just one by the singer.
We could call the singers platform a "private" window spot. The song floats through the air.
Something like this. A work around until the Big 3 come to their senses.

Alright, i'm out of here for good. Happy singing and have a happy life.

Your first mistake is basing things off of Lon's figures. Those are for the bar he is at. Each venue is different and fees are based on size, frequency of music, etc, so what Lon's venue pays will be different than your campground.

As for audits of the alphabet guys, that is in the hands of the artists. As for how often, I don't know but it has been done over the years.

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If the place you are talking about was paying their fees at all (willing to bet they were not), it wouldn't have been that high for two nights a month anyway. The fees I quoted were for the club I work in, karaoke 7 nights a week with a 200 capacity cap. The fees go down dramatically with less capacity & less karaoke nights. It's not on a per song basis either for clubs. With what you are describing it sounds like they would be paying around $300-400 per year (if that) to all 3 PRO combined. That would not break ANY club, unless they are struggling to begin with, but then that would mean they have other major issues and were more than likely doomed anyway but use karaoke or other things to put the blame on other than poor management or business skills.

Again as long as a public place has any kind of entertainment using original or cover works of music, tv, kj, dj, bands, jukebox,radio, etc. (usually covered with the jukebox lease agreement) (calling it something else will not magically slip you under) - they need to pay the 3 PRO. Now I do seem to recall that someone had mentioned that if the place is under a certain capacity or square footage, they are exempt. But am not positive on that.

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Lon - I see. You are right. $400 per year is not bad for 2 nights a month. I was wondering if they had a scale. So good info again from you.

Just looked at my homemade personal songs made with amazon and powerkaraoke. None use Sound Choice songs. Hip Hip Hurray! I'm not going to jail to share a cell with Bubba.

Lon, I think your math is a little bit off. $1,200 per year times 3 (ASCAP, BMI, SESAC) equals $3,600 per year. $3,600 per year divided by 365 days in the year equals $9.87 per day.

And not only that, but even with that stance he has taken, he has admitted to going to other KJ's shows with his own discs. What a hypocrite!

Yeah that's probably correct, i'm not great with math on the spot, but even still, if a bar cannot cover $9-10 bucks a night, then there is something wrong!


Well not really trying to rehash an old arguement as far as that, but yes you are correct as you seem to know exactly who i'm referring to!

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