Karaoke Forums

_________________
I like everyone when I first meet them. If you don't like me that's not my problem it's YOURS!
A stranger is a friend you haven't met yet

This is not accurate.

The sale to Stingray was concluded in early 2007. Copyright in the tracks made after the closing date--of which there are many--remains with SC.





VenueVJ.com directs customers to KaraokeLocker.com for KC tracks. That site includes the following language under the "legal" tab:

11. Usage Rules

You acknowledge and agree to use the Service, including the Products available through the Service, in compliance with the applicable Usage Rules:

a. You agree to use the Service and the Products available through the Service for personal, non-commercial use only;

The emphasis is mine.



I do not believe that their statements are accurate for the U.S. Whether Select-A-Track (a UK company) licenses under the SG6 license (not valid for downloads) or the LOML+ license (valid for downloads but not U.S.-authorized), those licenses are not operative in the U.S. The restriction on KC downloads to non-commercial use is a U.S. publisher directive, so it would do no good to have the manufacturer's endorsement, whatever that means.

But, as has been asked many times, who is going to come after you for using them?? SC has no interest in those tracks, so who would bother you over them??

_________________
I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

You are either joking or uninformed. SC sent out letters claiming that CAVS were illegal ( untruthful) which is why CAVS is suing them now.

Theuse of a CAVS player is most certainly NOT illegal, and my guess is that SC will have to pay for their error.

_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

THat was just bad word play on SC part, but like stated it's too late for them to recant and change that statement. I doubt they meant that the CAVS were illegal in themselves, it's the ones that were sold with SC libraries.
It's like guns aren't illegal until you do something illegal with them.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I am sorry I was not privy to the actual dates of the sale. So that said, realizing they only sold what they still had rights to in 2007, but music released prior to that breaks down like this:
Foundation 1 - 30 discs - 450 songs
Foundation 2 - 30 discs - 450 songs
Bricks 1-5 - 40 discs - 600 songs
Spotlight 8901-8996- Let's call it 900 discs - 13,500 songs
Power Picks 3001 - 3466 - 466 discs - round down to 450 - 3600 songs
Star Series 2001-2518 499 discs - 3990 Songs

Lot's of duplicates there, but you get the idea. Since early 2007 here is what you get.

4 Power Picks discs withe 32 songs
25 Spotlight discs with 425 Songs
Total Sound Choice - 457 Songs.

All active licenses prior to 2007 were sold. I was told by Bill Becker (acting person running Sound Choice at the time) that they sold over 6000 tracks. Since then they have released 457 songs.

So I amend my statement. about 90-95 % of all Sound Choice copyright is owned by Stingray. Sorry I mislead, but I was not privy to all details (just what someone introduced to me as the CEO of Sound Choice at a KIAA meeting told me directly).

Mr Harrington if you want to argue the numbers that is great. Publish a list for all of us and we will know exactly which tracks are licensed to whom.

VenueVJ started as a A ProDJ.com site and was introduced through them. I have tons of posts form the owners stating that all tracks were clear for commercial use. As stated, when it started you literally had to prove you were a professional Karaoke Host of DJ or you could not buy. I have lots of documentation on that. Some of it is still active in the archive.org copies of their sites. I have bought over 500 tracks through that program and I was NEVER redirected though KaraokeLocker.com and never agreed to those terms and conditions.

It seems funny that while your folks want to beat the "downloads are illegal" drum loudly, yet they continuously sell via sites that state quite the opposite. Now they sold on that site, knowing what the site said. You may have corrected that over the years with VenueVJ.com. but it still says what it says on SelectATrack.com site, and KaraokeChannel continues to cash the royalty checks from sales thus accepting monetary compensation from the site that makes that statement while the bars the tracks are being played in are paying ASCAP and BMI. As stated we mere mortal KJ's do not understand the law and we bought paying a seemingly legal fee from a site that said permissions were in order to play the tracks. The folks who own the tracks knowingly sold them there and accepted compensation for their sale and they were displayed publicly in a venue paying it's public performance fees. Seems we acted in good faith while your client is doing nothing to say the songs are NOT LEGAL to play in the US on the sites they are selling them from. Not really good faith, just cashing the checks! It seems to me that the folks on your side of this seem to keep changing their minds and their rules to be whatever suits them or makes them money at the time.

Check the history, despite the tactics of Sound Choice, I worked very hard to make peace with them and worked in their corner for a very long time. Their way of dealing with these issues and handing of all of these matters has got me rooting against them now. They did that. You will see more and more people switching camps and the problem is that most of the adamant people against Sound Choice here and everywhere else are their former clients who spent mini fortunes on their product.

It's actually pretty SAD!

_________________
Eric Godfrey
http://USKaraokeAlliance.com
http://StarzKaraoke.com
http://Karaoke2Night.com network

They have a top-notch lawyer, right? They should have known better.

You make it sound like it was an unfortunate accident. I don't think SC has done anything in a long time that wasn't completedly calculated.

_________________
Birdofsong

And every top notch lawyer (including your office) are perfect in their paperwork and NEVER make a mistake.

_________________
You can be strange but not a stranger

Amazing how many people will believe anything that comes out of the Sound choice camp. They really believe that Sound Choice is trying to help them by forcing people to buy the GEM series to remain in business. All Sound Choice is doing is selling the same product to their "new customers" at a lower price than what their old customers paid in the past. If Sound Choice can sell their songs now for a dollar; they should refund their old customers who paid over 2 dollars per song....if they wanted to be "fair". How many Cheerleading KJ's have gotten a refund from Sound Choice to make it a truly level playing field so that they can compete against the new customers who got their music librarty on the cheap? Is Sound Choice offereing to buy back any original discs at their original seeling price if the customer agrees to buy the GEM series? I haven't heard about anything like that. All they care about are potential NEW customers. OLD customers are just a source of information on who to file law suits against because they repost the pirates to Sound Choice and get nothing in return for their investigative skills.

It's better than them new customers that didn't pay a dime for their SC tracks for them to pay a few thousand at the minimum - then be able to continue without ever have paying anything.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

But how does this help the current KJ at all? It simply doesn't. Their competition isn't going anywhere, they are staying right where they are.

The only thing that changes is that some money will go from your competition to a vendor. And it's will be less money than you ever paid for the same music. So your former pirate competition who had an economic advantage, will simply now be your certified competition that has virtually the same economic advantage.

Do you believe in your area that bar owners would be willing to pay more if suddenly every KJ within sight was "certified?" I doubt it.

I agree with earthling's speculation: the number of KJ's will not diminish substantially – the competition between the KJ's will become simply a new price war.

They certainly wouldn't make one in which they "accidentally" sent out at least 100 letters accusing another company of illegal activity. Yeah, I think they'd be careful enough not to do that.

_________________
Birdofsong

Thanks, Eric. However, while Stingray Karaoke Channel ( Remember Derek Slep?)may offer Selectct-a-Track DISCS, they are Canadian based and I would remind folks that any downloads that they may offer are not licensed for use in shows by U.S. based KJs

_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Don't hold your breath, Eric. I have asked 4 solid questions all over this forum, and they have not and will not be answered- because Jim has a professional obligation to his client. The answer said questions truthfully would be detrimental to SC's current business model. It won't happen.

_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Even if that were true, they would be no less licensed for use in shows by U.S. based KJs than discs with the standard warning label: "Unauthorized duplication, public performance or broadcast is a violation of applicable laws".

_________________
KNOW THYSELF

And besides, who is going to come after you for using those downloads??

_________________
I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Lon, I give you more credit than that. A legal notification that was sent out? Accidental wording? It simply doesn't gel.....

_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

That's the way I see it. A cavs machine is only illegal if sold with a SC library - which is what i'm sure they meant, whatever anyone wants to believe. But like I agreed, it HAS been sent out in literature & is too late and they must face their consequences because someone didn't proofread. CAVS machines in themselves are not illegal (crappy maybe ) it's what is loaded onto them when they were sold is what would make them so or not.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

A CAVS 203G USB player is awesome, when used in USB mode. It is very slow to use for any type of disk.

And when it comes to training a new host - there is nothing better for training than a CAVS 203G USB. All of my new hosts get the hang of karaoke for the first 2-4 weeks using one.

Is it better than a computer? No. But for a lot of people, including trainees and folks who might just rent a karaoke system from you - it is better.

_________________
I'm not a cheerleader, but I paid for my pom poms with my own money!

Not if the disc set is included. There are too many variables for them to make a blanket statement about the legality like it is a foregone conclusion.

_________________
Birdofsong